the nhs disgrace

Cleaver

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

Do you think the NHS needs more money? WRONG - it needs less bureaucracy. Just look at these jobs being advertised:

TRANSFORMATION PROJECT MANAGER Salary £45254 - £55945

WHAT?

SACK ALL THE BUREAUCRATS AND LEAVE THE DOCTORS AND NURSES ALONE!

Just to illustrate the point I've just made, you have listed this job as an example of management bureaucracy and, in essence, I would actually agree with you having looking through the job description. Looks like a waste of time to me. A typical matron in a hospital will maybe look after 10 wards, and each of these wards will have it's own manager. Neither of these people will be 'in the numbers' to look after patients, they are both purely nurse managers. The matron will be on around £45k, the ward manager on £35k ish. They should be working together to 'transform nursing'. For whatever reason this isn't happening, so the Director of Nursing has obviously decided to put this post in place.

So in summary this job is based in the Directorate of Nursing, working for the Director of Nursing to work with nurses. I would fully expect this job to probably be filled by a nurse. So this is an example of a nurse, creating jobs in nursing areas, probably for other nurses to do.

Each nurse on the ward will have a nursing ward manager, a nursing matron, then this person, then a head of nursing then a director of nursing. All of whom will be nurses.

This is what happens when you 'leave the nurses alone'. Just like all other professions and industries, they come up with jobs for each other.

Cleaver

ILW wrote: »

I used to work with a company supplying hospitals estates departments with maintenance supplies. We used to charge them up to 4 times more than the private companies we supplied because they never asked for a discount. Sort of sums it all up to me.

Was this quite a while ago? From what I can gather the various NHS procurement hubs now in place put a stop to this type of thing.

wymondham

You're forgetting the more management posts the more problems slip between them. It happens in our company - when somethings not working right they put a manager in place rather than sort the source issue out - great for underlings as more people to 'pass up' to !!!

ILW

Cleaver wrote: »

Was this quite a while ago? From what I can gather the various NHS procurement hubs now in place put a stop to this type of thing.

Last year and as far as I know they are still overpaying.

custardy

marklv wrote: »

God, you are so stupid it's unbelievable. So you would rather have trained doctors do admin work, would you? Wouldn't that be a waste? And what the !!!! do you know about what is needed or not needed? You're just a waste of space who happens to post rubbish on this forum, nothing more.

ninky_2

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

are you having a laugh? do you think having more bureaucrats actually improves efficiency?

more efficiency would be having fewer managers doing more tasks. that what the private sector does - high productivity by fewer staff doing more.

who needs these stupid targets and 'performance management' - it just feeds the gravy train. just let the doctors and nurses do their jobs - they're adults, they know how to.

i actually think a lot of the management techniques you are railing against are borrowed from the private sector.

many private sector companies have many levels of management and pay large amounts to managers.

do you really think you can run a large hospital or provide adequate healthcare without managers?

marklv

This person (PrivatisetheNHSnow) does nothing but post offensive comments and rants all over this forum. I'm really sick and tired of trolls like him - he should be banned from here once and for all, along with that other loony, WhiteHorse.

ILW

marklv wrote: »

This person (PrivatisetheNHSnow) does nothing but post offensive comments and rants all over this forum. I'm really sick and tired of trolls like him - he should be banned from here once and for all, along with that other loony, WhiteHorse.

I agree comrade. The masses need protecting from anybody that does not agree with you. Locking them up in mental hospitals would probably work quite well, or has that been done somewhere before?

ninky_2

marklv wrote: »

This person (PrivatisetheNHSnow) does nothing but post offensive comments and rants all over this forum. I'm really sick and tired of trolls like him - he should be banned from here once and for all, along with that other loony, WhiteHorse.

deep breath. you can just put them on your ignore list.

personally i wouldn't want to see them banned. they dig the graves for their own ideas quite successfully imho and this quite amusing to witness.:cool:

Cleaver

marklv wrote: »

This person (PrivatisetheNHSnow) does nothing but post offensive comments and rants all over this forum. I'm really sick and tired of trolls like him - he should be banned from here once and for all, along with that other loony, WhiteHorse.

You can fully understand people seeing these jobs, in the current climate, and getting annoyed by them. However, I think intelligent people realise that to run an organisation like the NHS you need a balance of clinical staff, support staff, administrative staff and managers to make the whole thing work. People will always want to debate the detail as to how this mix should be made up. If you simply want to provoke a reaction on an internet forum, or you're actually not bright enough to debate your point of view in a sensible way, then you might come on and say "Sack managers, employ more nurses. That'll work, innit?".

However, I think most people sense that the issue is more complex than this, so don't let it get to you too much. We shouldn't be banning people, even if their point of view seems quite extreme.