the nhs disgrace

PrivatisetheNHSnow

Do you think the NHS needs more money? WRONG - it needs less bureaucracy. Just look at these jobs being advertised:

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.cgi?selection=912458253

TRANSFORMATION PROJECT MANAGER Salary £45254 - £55945

The role will co-ordinate a number of redesign projects reporting to the Transformation Board and will encompass working with clinical teams on re-design to maximize productivity and efficiency and best meet patient’s needs.

WHAT?

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.cgi?selection=912458181

Business Manager - Salary £38,851 to £46,621

The post will be responsible for the implementation of a Business Group quality improvement programme, implementation and management of a performance management structure and will head the development of 18 week specialty teams in order to embed processes throughout the specialtie

WHAT?

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.cgi?selection=912458146

Transformation Programme Director Band 8d Salary £65,270 to £80,810

The Director will play a key role in ensuring critical deadlines are met while keeping the frontline and stakeholders engaged and on board with the changes.

?

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.cgi?selection=912456499

Associate Director of Contracts Salary: £65,270-80,810

The nine PCT’s in South Central SHA have developed a new collaborative commissioning model to develop best in class and add leverage to the commissioning and contracting processes.

???

SACK ALL THE BUREAUCRATS AND LEAVE THE DOCTORS AND NURSES ALONE!

phil_b_2

Some of the jobs advertised do sound a bit flakey I must admin. Almost like they have strung a bunch of elaborate words together to make a job sound all tough and complex so they can pay someone £80k and justify their budgets.

that was certainly the case in a previous organisation I did work for.

Andy_L

Once you strip out all the management speak though (which is hardly unique to the NHS):

TRANSFORMATION PROJECT MANAGER
So your saying the NHS couldn't improve its efficiency by redesigning its processes?

Business Manager
So your saying the NHS shouldn't have a performance management system?

Transformation Programme Director
So your saying the NHS can't improve its contracting system?

Looking at all vacancies I see 6186 vacancies of which only ~1500 are for non-medics. Seems a reasonable balance, YMMV - what should the ratio be?

PrivatisetheNHSnow

are you having a laugh? do you think having more bureaucrats actually improves efficiency?

more efficiency would be having fewer managers doing more tasks. that what the private sector does - high productivity by fewer staff doing more.

who needs these stupid targets and 'performance management' - it just feeds the gravy train. just let the doctors and nurses do their jobs - they're adults, they know how to.

PrivatisetheNHSnow

marklv wrote: »

!!!! off you !!!!!!! Go and preach your crap somewhere else, !!!!!!!

see if the union care

marklv

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

are you having a laugh? do you think having more bureaucrats actually improves efficiency?

more efficiency would be having fewer managers doing more tasks. that what the private sector does - high productivity by fewer staff doing more.

who needs these stupid targets and 'performance management' - it just feeds the gravy train. just let the doctors and nurses do their jobs - they're adults, they know how to.

God, you are so stupid it's unbelievable. So you would rather have trained doctors do admin work, would you? Wouldn't that be a waste? And what the !!!! do you know about what is needed or not needed? You're just a waste of space who happens to post rubbish on this forum, nothing more.

marklv

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

see if the union care

!!!! off and die, moron.

PrivatisetheNHSnow

marklv wrote: »

God, you are so stupid it's unbelievable. So you would rather have trained doctors do admin work, would you? Wouldn't that be a waste? And what the !!!! do you know about what is needed or not needed? You're just a waste of space who happens to post rubbish on this forum, nothing more.

i know a hospital needs admin like receptionists and telephone assistants, but these jobs are completely pointless - read the job description. why are they so well paid - a junior doctor or nurse earns far less than these non-jobs.

lemonjelly

marklv wrote: »

!!!! off and die, moron.

Easy marklv - don't bite. It is the reaction that is being sought...

All that is happening is

Cleaver

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

are you having a laugh? do you think having more bureaucrats actually improves efficiency?

No. Having a workforce that's efficient improves efficiency. It's up for debate how this workforce should be made up. In the NHS it certainly isn't only doctors and nurses and it certainly shouldn't be top-heavy with managers. It's somewhere in between.

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

more efficiency would be having fewer managers doing more tasks. that what the private sector does - high productivity by fewer staff doing more.

It would. But that doesn't mean that the jobs you quote aren't valid. They may be completely pointless of course, but I can't comment on that without knowing the organisation.

Here's a question. You have a ward with 30 nurses that is inefficient. Some of the nurses are lazy, there are cr*p processes in place and for it's been like this for years. Someone comes in as 'Efficiency Manager', paid £35k, who redesigns the way the nurses work. They make a cost saving of £120,000 in the first year and find, through their work, that just 25 nurses are required to run the ward in a more productive way. The roll this out in the rest of the hospital, saving around £2 million. I presume this is a role you would be completely in favour of as you want to drive efficiency?

Let's take the head of contracting one you list:

The role will co-ordinate a number of redesign projects reporting to the Transformation Board and will encompass working with clinical teams on re-design to maximize productivity and efficiency and best meet patient’s needs.

This is a role that may have been request by nurses and doctors, to work for nurses and doctors to make nurses and doctors working life easier and more productive. It might even be filled by a doctor or a nurse. It could result in a lot of additional efficiency, productivity, money-saving and enhanced patient experience. It could, obviously, also be a complete waste of time.

Neither you or I can make this judgement call without knowing more about the role and the organisation.

PrivatisetheNHSnow wrote: »

just let the doctors and nurses do their jobs - they're adults, they know how to.

Having worked in and out of the NHS for a good few years now, it's a complete misconception that you have a raft of bureaucratic, pointless, useless, highly-paid managers who are completely at odds with a hard-working, under-pressure, wonderful clinical workforce who hate the managers. It's far more complex than that, but then intelligent people know this.

When I worked in a hospital there were plenty of people with titles, often like the ones above, who I looked at and thought "what do you actually do?". And that's a sad state of affairs. At the same time there were some amazing managers. People who would genuinely work tirelessly to improve patient experience. I reckon they justified their salary ten times over.

And guess what? Exactly the same on the clinical side. There were doctors and nurses who I would work with and think, how do you have this passion and patience to deal with all this bureaucracy and managers and still have the time to be as fantastic as you are with patients. Nurses who not only cared for patients in a brilliant way, but would think more about innnovation, new ways of working, keeping the finances in order, ways to save money etc. But, there were useless nurses and doctors too. Lazy, never interested in saving money, would not work with the organisation to make patient care better and all the usual traits you could imagine. And let's not forget that nurses and doctors like moving in to roles just like the ones you outline above. Visit your local hospital and ask how many nurse management roles there are - Matron, 4-Hour Wait Facilitator, Bed Manager, Nurse Transformational Project Manager, Nurse Cleanliness advisor.

Poor clinicians are just as happy to create pointless, non-jobs in clinical areas as poor managers are in management areas. But then you know this, and are really just trolling.

ILW

I used to work with a company supplying hospitals estates departments with maintenance supplies. We used to charge them up to 4 times more than the private companies we supplied because they never asked for a discount. Sort of sums it all up to me.