breastfeeding advice required - no milk supply!

Jay-Jay_4

Well second births are normally a lot easier... people say it all the time but IT'S TRUE!!!!

You've had a HORRIBLE first delivery... I had a horrible 1st but nowhere NEAR what you had.

second time is better, you know what to expect and more importantly, your body knows... don't underestimate this. Second time around your body 'remembers' what to do. Your cervix is more elastic and your contractions more effective.

I felt like you about my traumatic 1st delivery and eventually booked for a homebirth. I never thought that I'd go through with it but I did and WOW... what a difference!

I take painkillers for fun but labour with a second baby at home is like a holiday after labour with a first baby in hospital!

stardoman

Can I suggest you try and get some breastfeeding support BEFORE the baby is born? As you know its so tiring with a newborn and you might not have the energy to seek out support once the baby is born. These days there are often breastfeeding support groups nearby and mums can attend these as a bump. Although each NCT branch is different in what they offer, most have a Bumps and Babes group which meet once a week. Again, as the name implies you can attend as a bump.

Like you, I was surrounded by bottlefeeding mums. In fact, I hadn't even seen anyone breastfeed before I had my own baby. When I found the NCT it was so nice because there were other mums breastfeeding and this may me feel less of a weirdo and more normal. It was also nice to have a winge or chat about the good things with other mums who understood.

Have the number of the helplines nearby. I have the NCT one on my wall next to the computer so I never have to go searching for it (sad I know!!!!).

As someone else mentioned, the health professionals you deal with often know very little about breastfeeding and what they do know is often out of date. For example, if a health professional (midwife, health visitor, gp, nursery nurse etc) suggests tops ups then that is a sure sign they know very little about breastfeeding. Ring a helpline to get a second opinion. Also, at Northumbria University near me, breastfeeding has been dropped from the course ALTOGETHER. Don't know about other universities. So new midwives will not have received any training in breastfeeding at all. Personally, I think this is shocking as feeding a baby, however it is done, is one of the most important things to do with a new baby. These midwives will be expected to show mums how to breastfeed when they deliver the baby. IMO, all midwives should have the knowledge to support mums whichever way they want to feed, and not just if they want to bottlefeed.

I found it interesting that someone else on here felt very pressured to breastfeed. I'm pregnant with my third, due in March, and have so far felt as though the midwives assume I'll bottlefeed. My clinic has lots of "Bottlefeeding with your Baby" leaflets and signs up about reduced formula and not one thing on breastfeeding. Breastfeeding has not been discussed and even though I know there are breastfeeding workshops I haven't been told how to attend (and it'll be too late now as I'm 32 weeks). But then in my area only 13% of women initiate breastfeeding.

Good luck, Mandy.

jellyhead

that's encouraging lol! after a first labour with epidural and forceps that lasted 12 hours or so my sis had a second labour without pain relief, she probably would have asked for some but it was all over so quickly (half an hour lol!) she never got a chance, i'm hoping mine's like that :-)

my friend had a home birth with her second too. i have to go to hospital but am hoping it will all be completely different this time. i remember the jab they give you for delivering the placenta - the delivery of the placenta was absolute agony, i'm not having that jab again lol! i've been reading the miriam stoppard book, it's heavily biased in favour of home birth, fewer drugs, breast feeding etc. and it's reassuring to read that most people don't actually need much medical intervention. as long as i'm okay i know enough this time around to say no to some things and get a more natural birth :-)

hubby also says i should stop watching holby on tv, all the births on there are traumatic and the babies always end up not having the husband as the real father lol!

jellyhead

mandy that is shocking about midwives not being trained in breastfeeding! it might be different in my area because the focus is all on breastfeeding, you won't find any posters or leaflets about bottles in my surgery. i think emma's diary is unbiased, i can't remember. bounty are in favour of breastfeeding, there's a pampers video about breastfeeding too, i haven't managed to watch it yet though, need to find someone with a video player instead of dvd lol! i emailed them to ask if it's available on dvd or cd-rom but didn't get a reply. i also got a baby welcome pack at the surgery and that's very much in favour of breast. the only money off posters in my surgery are the ones for using washable nappies, you get money back off the council. the main focus in the surgery is to stop smoking during pregnancy.

i'd not heard of bumps and babes, will find out :-)

when i had my first i didn't know anyone who breastfed but 9 years on it's fairly common. my first was given bottle top ups at first, i didn't wake up for 3 days though so they had to feed him. how long do you think a baby can go without a bottle while you try to establish breastfeeding?

stardoman

"when i had my first i didn't know anyone who breastfed but 9 years on it's fairly common. my first was given bottle top ups at first, i didn't wake up for 3 days though so they had to feed him. how long do you think a baby can go without a bottle while you try to establish breastfeeding?"

While your baby would have needed something during the 3 days, it did not have to be via a bottle. Babies can be cup fed - they lap it up out of the cup rather like a cat! Alternatively, they can be fed via a spoon or syringe. My first baby had his first feed from a cup as I couldn't get him to latch on for long as he was very sleepy. I was very lucky as the midwife I initially had on the postnatal ward was very knowledgeable about breastfeeding.

If a baby receives anything in a bottle before having a go at the breast (including water) it can make it virtually impossible to get breastfeeding going. This is because the baby sucks a bottle in a very different way to milking the breast. When breastfeeding, the baby's mouth should be open very wide. Imagine getting an orange and cutting it into segments to eat, like you sometime get at an Indian Restaurant at the end of a meal. To eat the orange you open your mouth really wide to surround the whole segment. This is similar to breastfeeding, where the mouth should cover not just the nipple but a large amount of breast tissue. When bottlefeeding, this is similar to drinking from a straw - instead of the mouth being wide open, the mouth is closed tightly. Milk is easier to get from a bottle as with very little / no sucking it will still drip into the baby's mouth. Most babies who receive a bottle first learn to feed with their mouth closed and this can make it very difficult to get the baby to latch on as the mouth has to be wide for breastfeeding to happen.

I wouldn't guarantee that midwifery training is any better in your area than mine. Nationally, they have to promote breastfeeding during pregnancy as there are government targets to get the initiation rates up. Not so many targets for keeping it going though. Also, I don't think the hospital actually has any say in the content of the midwivery course - it is up to the university. As far as I'm aware, in most areas of the country it is an OPTIONAL module in the 3rd year consisting of 3 hours training. When I queried this I was told that not everyone wants to specialise in breastfeeding, they may prefer to specialise in parentcraft or another area. I don't see why it should be seen as a specialism, especially when all midwives will be expected to help mums learn to breastfeed when their baby is born. But that's how it is.

My team of midwives are in conflict with the hospital and PCT's breastfeeding policy. When I brought it to their attention (I'm a lay person on the breastfeeding steering group), I was told that my team is the only one not following guidelines and that they are aware of the situation and trying to sort it out.

Be careful with the company sponsored breastfeeding videos. They are little more than adverts for their own products. For example, the Avent Breastfeeding video is fairly negative about breastfeeding in places and concentrated on problems. It advertises its nipple shields and while shields can be useful in certain situations, they can also be detrimental to your milk supply if used for more than a couple of days. They can also lead to nipple confusion, similar to bottlefeeding.

Its interesting what you are saying about Bounty and Emma's diary being pro-breastfeeding, as the midwives here view both as pro-bottle and Emma's diary is no longer given out.

Whoops! This got a bit long again!

Mandy.

Jay-Jay_4

jellyhead wrote:

i remember the jab they give you for delivering the placenta - the delivery of the placenta was absolute agony, i'm not having that jab again lol!

Have a read about physiological 3rd stage (delivering your placenta without any drugs)

Most midwives don't think twice about giving you the jab, they want it all over and done with as soon as possible. They tell you that it'll be quicker and less painfull (!) and that you'll bleed less!

In actual fact, you may deliver the placenta very quickly of your own accord and you bleed anyway, it just may be heavier at first without the sytometrine.

I'm not suggesting that you 'refuse' syntrometrine, all midwives will have it on standby anyway, but you can ask to 'try' for a Physiological 3rd and if it's not working then they can give you the jab.

The problem is that the jab makes your uterus contract SO hard that it can cause a few problems (which I won't go into....it'll be an essay) when without the jab, your uterus contracts gradually and naturally.

Obviously if there's any risk of a post-partum hemorrhage, they'll give you the jab, fair enough. But as with all of these 'medicalised' births... why fix it if it aint broke?

Personally I hate the fact that they try to speed things up all the time, who does it benefit? certainly not the poor Mum on the bed with drips and needles all over the place and certainly not the baby who's on a rollercoaster ride anyway.

carpool72

I put in my birth plan that I wanted to try to deliver the placenta naturally, and my dh, bless him, remembered to tell the midwife this as I was pushing dd out! Midwife agreed to give it 1/2 hour or so and it came out no bother in about 15 mins.

I'd strongly recommend NCT antenatal classes - if your due in July there's plenty time to sign up to one near you. A girl on mine had a dreadful labour first time round and found the classes really helpful for talking through what happened and getting the support and info to help out 2nd time (which was a breeze btw). You'll also probably have a class with a breastfeeding counsellor. I agree about asking for support whilst pregnant though - ring the breastfeeding line for a counsellor near you and she'll be happy to help, and will support you whether you end up breast or bottle feeding - what's important is that you have an outcome you're happy with, and if you try your best and get the support you need you can't do anything more.

Good luck!

Savvy_Sue

Right back on page 1, remember, we were talking about food which would help get iron levels up. CHOCOLATE! No kidding! Also apparently we need vitamin C in to help absorb the iron, so the obvious answer is A Terry's Chocolate Orange!

Of course if you get diabetes of pregnancy you're stuffed on the chocolate front. (Sad smilie not available then?)

And for those who do both breastfeed and leak and want to leave the occasional bottle, you used to be able to buy drip collectors. Not comfy for wearing all the time, but I used to stuff one inside my bra while feeding, then swap sides. Used to buy special little bags to tip it into, then freeze it.

It was a complete waste of time from my son's point of view because the only thing he would drink from was me, and the only thing apart from me he would tolerate in his mouth at all was a finger or thumb (mine or his dad's). But it made me feel better when I left him for an hour or two: if he was hungry enough, he'd have taken a bottle, or spoon, or cup - wouldn't he? We will never know.

But it wasn't a complete waste of time because my best friend was ill after having had her first a few weeks before mine, so I was doing a milk run to the hospital to top up her milk supply. Have posted about this before so won't repeat it all again.

jellyhead

choccy oranges it is then

funny how you just feel like eating the food you need isn't it, i've been wanting dried apricots, etc. and never normally eat them. have also started drinking fruit shoots and ribena and eating oily fish. it's not cravings exactly, just that i fancy eating these things. my craving is for chip shop chips with pickled eggs, always has been whether pregnant or not. i wonder if i can come up with a nutritional excuse lol!

carol_a_3

I was sorry to hear about your problems with breastfeeding. I'm by no means an expert but I did manage to feed my three children who are now 21, 18 and 15 so forgive me if my memory plays up a bit!

I was really healthy and had a normal but very long labour with daughter number 1 and ended up anaemic needing a blood transfusion. I was also given pethadine at the last minute before delivery which I feel affected the baby who was hard to rouse for a couple of days. Consequently she didn't want to feed, lost loads of weight and I had to argue so much with the staff who kept trying to give her bottles. If the baby is supplemented too much with formula I'd read that the demand on you dimished so you produced less.

I was stressed, anxious and didn't sleep for the whole 8 days I was in hospital. Having said all that, when I got home I persevered, rested as much as posssible, drank and ate loads and fed her until she was three years old (no Little Britain jokes please!) It was difficult trying to ignore my mother-in law who only believed in feeding every 4 hours but I fed her every 10 minutes when she was crying and that built up the supply. just swapping from one side to the other whilst lying on the sofa watching TV. My bible was "Breast is best", I'm sorry I can't remember who the author was but it made so much sense.

Pregnancy number two saw me very anaemic, I didn't seem to absorb iron from food or tablets so I ended up having twice weekely iron injections from the midwife, ouch. I ended up with purple hips from the staining but a blood count of over 15. This delivery was drug free and the difference was amazing, the baby was awake, alert and, having fed before, I ignored all the "experts" in the hospital, did it my own way and fed her for 18 months when she wanted to stop.

My son was a straightforward pregnancy, long but drug free labour, small baby but, apart from the screaming every evening which I'd had with the other two, seemed to want to feed. Unfortunately he/I got thrush in his mouth, my breasts and it was agony. Bleeding, cracked soreness but I still carried on, I was determined not to have to resort to steralising bottles, night heating up etc and after all, I am a moneysaver. Along with gritting my teeth, even screaming myself with the pain from time to time and cream from the doctor I carried on. If you let the fresh air to them as much as possible cracked nipples do heal quite quickly. Anyway, I fed him until he was about 2 1/2 too. That is another story in itself with the disapproval from friends and family and comments like "feeding him through the school gates etc" I even worked full time for a year after my first daughter, fed her before I went, she had a cups of water and a little solids at the child minders and I fed her all evening myself when I got home. It would have been so easy to have given up many times but I do have a lot of "stickability" and feel very strongly about not giving up easily on things.

I wish you all the luck in the world, do try and find a sympathetic midwife, health visitor if you can, read the books but, as several other messages have said try to relax about it as that really affects your milk supply. I'm sure you'll be fine this time, being so ill before must have affected your body. Someone I knew nearly died from pre-eclampsia with her first but she went on to two more problem free births, her boys are all 20 something now too. This makes me feel old! Good luck and enjoy your baby!