Help - JC+ threatening to cancel my claim

Pea-pod

Thanks everyone for everyone who has tried to help here.

OMR, I have a letter from my tutor which states that the course I'm on is a part time 2 year postgraduate diploma, that allows access to senior jobs within its field. Context time is 4 hours a week for 30 weeks. The course is recognised as a 'qualifying course' by the DfE and DWP as leading to a professional vocational qualification.

The field trip is a compulsory element of the course is within the EU and is not more than 16 contact hours.

My tutor then goes on to state that the benefit regulations allow for such circumstances where the course is clearly intended to equip students with skills and knowledge for employment.

Trouble is, I'm not sure if my tutor is right - when I phoned JC+ today, they weren't interested in any of this - simply insisting that the moment I leave the UK, my benefits are cancelled. And then, they won't allow me to sign back on again until the situation with regards to the course is clarified. They provided me with no reassurance or information to enable an informed choice as to whether I should go on the trip or not. I am simply told 'not to turn up' for the next appointment and then go in after I'm back in the country to try and sign on again.

I am very concerned about all this - how on earth can I be in this situation? I asked if the course was OK before I signed up for it last october.

If this enables anyone to help further, I'd be grateful.

oldmotherreilly

Did you fill in a form with the course details? Did they ask for a copy of the Learning Agreement? If they did not, I would ask them to have a look at LMS (their computer system) and hope that your advisor made a note that she had advised you that the course is OK. Does your advisor remember talking to you about it? You must insist on making a claim on your return to the UK and when they ask you to complete the form etc, give them a copy of the letter from your tutor. Once you have completed the stencil, they may decide that they can treat your availability as straightforward. If not and they decide to refer the question to a Decision Maker, enclose a letter detailing everything that you have posted here; if they can find something on LMS to confirm what you have said or if your advisor is prepared to write a statement to say that she OKed the course, attach this too. If they do refer the question to the DM,no JSA will be paid until a decision has been made.
The two week employment related course rule I think, as skintbint says,is only applicable for courses in the UK but I too am not 100% certain on this. I would suggest that you contact the Advisory Services Manager tomorrow (and insist on talking to them or the Jobcentre Manager) and ask him/her to check guidance to see if this is correct-explain to them what you have been through and I am sure they will find out the answer for you. Let us know what they say, so that we will know for future reference!

Pea-pod

Thanks OMR. I spoke to my original job advisor today who remembered me and the discussions we had about the course. I didn't complete a form at the time because I wasn't asked to (and didn't know there was one). She thought that she had asked me for a copy of the learning agreement - but the first I'd heard of one of these was this Tuesday when I signed on.

I cannot remember ever having been asked to supply a copy of the agreement (in fact, because I was a late entrant to the course I don't think I've ever had one), but I do remember showing them details of the course and confirming it was less than 16 hours a week. In order to accommodate my attendance at classes on Monday, they moved my signing on day from Mondays to Tuesdays at my request - surely this substantiates the fact that I was given approval?

I spoke to a senior manager at the job centre today - it wasn't a terribly helpful conversation. Unfortunately, my treatment from the jobcentre so far is such that I genuinely believe that they'll be their utmost to disallow my claim. The senior manager I saw on Tuesday made some pointed - and extremely sanctimonious - remarks about 'proper use of tax payers money' and refused to confirm the criteria used when assessing course eligibility in case I used them to my advantage!!!

Oldernotwiser

Pea-pod wrote: »

I cannot remember ever having been asked to supply a copy of the agreement (in fact, because I was a late entrant to the course I don't think I've ever had one), but I do remember showing them details of the course and confirming it was less than 16 hours a week. In order to accommodate my attendance at classes on Monday, they moved my signing on day from Mondays to Tuesdays at my request - surely this substantiates the fact that I was given approval?

But did you explain that doing this course would involve you being abroad for a fortnight? Was this approved?

Pea-pod

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But did you explain that doing this course would involve you being abroad for a fortnight? Was this approved?

It's three days, not a fortnight and in any event whilst I am sure it's buried in the small print, when I enrolled last year, I fully expected to be back in employment by now.

Furthermore, it is not only the field trip that is now raising concerns but the course itself. Given the whole point of my doing it is to enhance my employment term prospects - and believe me, it's no picnic changing careers at my age - plus I am financing it myself, it seems ludicrous that every obstacle now appears to be thrown in my path.

Plus, and as I prove every two weeks when I sign on, I am continuing to search hard for a job.

Sues48

As a previous poster mentioned there is a lot of ignorance in jobcentres regarding part time education and the JSA regulations. Four years ago when I began my Adviser training I was told that as long as the course was less than 16 guided learning hours per week then it was OK, just needed to get customer to fill in form with details of course and ask them to bring in copy of learning agreement to confirm hours and it could be classed as straight forward. However, I have recently found out that this is not the case, regardless of hours, any course which is above a level 2 qualification needs submitting to a Decision Maker. BTW, I am not the only adviser in my office who thought this and there is a currently an exercise going on in my office to re-examine all the cases where customers are undergoing part time education.

Whilst I am sympathetic to you plight and fully understand why you are doing this course, the facts remain that it more than likely does not meet the criteria to be classed as straight forward. Many university students,(my son included), spend far less than 16 hours actually in lectures/tutorials but cannot claim JSA as they are classed as being in full time education and not available for work.

oldmotherreilly

Pea-pod, have a read (very light bed time reading!!) of this:http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch30.pdf. These are the rules that the Decision Maker will use when deciding your entitlement to JSA.

Pea-pod

Thank you OMR - that is one heck of a link, but potentially very useful. I'm gradually ploughing through it, but maybe it explains why no one was prepared to give me any definitive guidance at the job centre. Not however, that lack of knowledge can excuse their officiousness.

Horace

Pea-pod, they are very officious in the jobcentre..its the same everywhere.

bitsandpieces

Wouldn't the Jobcentre class a part-time university course as under 16hrs? I know they don't allow claims while studying full-time, but part-time seems more reasonable.

As far as the fieldtrip - if you sign off for 3 days and then rapid reclaim, I take it this is going to cause you big problems with insurance? If the Jobcentre won't allow the fieldtrip, speak to your tutor at uni - they may be able to make arrangements which offer you an alternative. Obviously, some people will miss fieldtrips due to illness etc - the question is whether the uni classes Jobcentre/insurance problems as a good enough reason not to go