Help please Mum's cash isa- Lloyds have taken it out without permission

footiemad

Hi

I really need some help and advice please. My mum and dad signed up to transfer their cash isas last year (the full amount) to Lloyds to get a better rate of interest. My mum has just retired so she has a large lump sum in her Lloyds current account. She logged onto the Lloyds internet banking this morning to discover there was a LOT less money in her account than a few days ago. After some investigation she found that Lloyds have transferred the money for both of their isas for this year into the isa account from the transfer. This was not my mum's action, Lloyds have automatically done this without permission.

Basically I need to know where my mum stands with this as she has not allowed this to happen. What would happen if she had left that money in there to pay a large sum like a new kitchen or something? Can she get the money out and put it in another better paying interest isa or is that her isa allowance used up now??? Do you think my mum should make a complaint about this? Has anyone else had this happen to them??

Thanks in advance for your help

peterbaker

Immediate complaint to Lloyds preferably by phone to 0845 3 000 000
(01733 347007).

Better not pre-judge how it happened, but sadly there are too many over-hungry bank staff in this world who need the 'sales' figures one way or another.

dunstonh

After some investigation she found that Lloyds have transferred the money for both of their isas for this year into the isa account from the transfer. This was not my mum's action, Lloyds have automatically done this without permission.

This doesnt happen automatically. So, someone has done this. So, the audit trail should be very easy.

Better not pre-judge how it happened, but sadly there are too many over-hungry bank staff in this world who need the 'sales' figures one way or another.

Lloydsdont have sales targets on Cash ISAs. Just S&S ISAs.

Basically I need to know where my mum stands with this as she has not allowed this to happen.

She asks them why they did it. They look into it and either find her authorisation to do it or they dont. If the former, then its her fault. If the latter, then its their fault and they will put it right.

Do you think my mum should make a complaint about this?

The bank can probably give an answer on this within 24 hours if you ask them why. It you take it straight to complaint she could be waiting weeks.

There is no need to go straight to complaint. Why not find out the facts first and then decide if its a complaint issue or not.

Has anyone else had this happen to them??

It would not be at all unsual to pre-sign up to an ISA for the new tax year. Providers have done this for years. Its very common. Whether its intended or an accident is a different matter in this case though.

footiemad

Thanks for your very helpful replies. We'll ring them today and ask why they took it out. Thank you again.

peterbaker

Just noticed an interesting piece of market small print I'd forgotten about which was paraphrased in another thread:

Originally Posted by Baldur
When you receive the paperwork, there should be provision to delete the phrase that says something (very roughly) like "I apply to subscribe for 2009/10 and subsequent tax years" if you don't wish to subscribe new money, as you don't.

If something like that has happened then it was not the most customer-friendly tactic in the moving feast which is the Cash ISA market of the last few years (that's the feast which is usually a 12 month long conveyor belt where your funds drop off the end into a smelly trough with all sorts of snouts).

PS The complaint should be made immediately. The named customer will need to be present by the phone to confirm. There is clearly some expression of customer dissatisfaction and that should be logged by the bank on the first call. Whether or not it gets sorted by the first recipient of the call or whether it will need to be escalated for someone else to investigate may well be of concern but I think that wrapping it in tissue and pvssy-footing might simply lead to no complaint being logged which I think would be wrong in this case. The bank must provide written acknowledgement of the complaint inside 5 working days.

PPS When I mentioned staff who need the 'sales' figures one way or another, I made no mention of who in the chain might need them. Clearly Cash ISA providers run marketing campaigns supported by all sorts of people including sales staff. To suggest there are no sales targets for some products is surely not quite the case?

dunstonh

I personally find the attitude to jump straight to complaint distasteful. The FSA regulated complaints process can see staff disciplined, be hit financially or even dismissed. In some roles it can also make them unemployable.

To jump right in at the deep end with a formal complaint without actually knowing first what has happened is overkill. Once you know what happened then you can make an complaint based on facts or it may be a simple issue the branch can sort out in minutes whereas the complaints process can takes weeks or months. If the branch cant resolve it or doesnt resolve it satisfactorily, then take it to formal complaint. Indeed, your complaint could be stronger if you feel not only the transaction was wrong but also how the branch handled your query was unsatisfactory.

peterbaker

dunstonh wrote: »

I personally find the attitude to jump straight to complaint distasteful...

At your end of the FSA regulated spectrum, dunstonh, maybe so ... at the retail bank/cash ISA end, don't be silly. If someone has made a simple mistake, it will be forgiven. If they have made a deliberate self-serving play, then they deserve all they get.

To jump right in at the deep end with a formal complaint without actually knowing first what has happened is overkill ...

No it isn't. All expressions of customer dissatisfaction must be formally logged and in timely fashion according to FSA regulations. To satisfy FSA monitoring requirements they are generally logged into something known as a Customer Complaints System.

Here's a clue published 5 years ago about how it is supposed to work:
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/tcf/pdf/complaints.pdf

Take a look at the bottom of the last page:

Further effort is needed by firms to:

•Develop a culture that does not view complaints negatively.
•Make it easier for customers to complain and express their dissatisfaction.
•Improve the investigation and prompt and appropriate decision making of complaints.

dunstonh

At your end of the FSA regulated spectrum, dunstonh, maybe so ... at the retail bank/cash ISA end, don't be silly. If someone has made a simple mistake, it will be forgiven. If they have made a deliberate self-serving play, then they deserve all they get.

I agree with those that do it wrong "on purpose" or are totally incompetent. However, when it comes to annual reports at the banks and the branch can only give out so many "A" grades or "B" grades etc. then complaints work against you, even if not upheld. However, it is mainly at our end that it suffers more.

No it isn't. All expressions of customer dissatisfaction must be formally logged and in timely fashion according to FSA regulations. To satisfy FSA monitoring requirements they are generally logged into something known as a Customer Complaints System.

They dont need to be logged if its an error that can be resolved easily (and isnt a regulatory issue). Venting your dissatisfaction but getting a [near] immediate response that solves it doesnt require logging of a complaint. Correcting a mistake is not the same as a complaint being made.

Take a look at the bottom of the last page:
Quote:
Further effort is needed by firms to:

•Develop a culture that does not view complaints negatively.
•Make it easier for customers to complain and express their dissatisfaction.
•Improve the investigation and prompt and appropriate decision making of complaints.

Nothing wrong with the idea but two issues hit that. Claims companies encouraging people to put in try-it-on or even fraudulent complaints and a cost/reward system that penalises individuals that get complaints, even if not upheld.

I just think that before rushing to complain, you should give people the chance to clarify or check the issue first as it could just be a simple misunderstanding that is easily resolved.

Castleman

footiemad wrote: »

Hi

I really need some help and advice please...

1) Get your mum to phone them and all will be resolved.

2) Chill out!

footiemad

Hello

Thanks for all of your useful replies.

We went to the bank and we spoke to the person that we had seen before about transferring the isas in the first place.

About a month ago my mum wanted to open a Vantage account to get a better rate of interest whilst we were there he sold us house and contents insurance which was a good deal. He then proceeded to tell my mum that she didn't have a cash isa for the year (08/09) when my mum was very certain she did. He was adamant that she hadn't so he transferred the money. The money came back as guess what? she already had an isa for that year. . He never did open the Vantage ac btw.

He today said that he misunderstood and had moved the isa for this year. I don't understand how he could have misunderstood?? Is there not some procedure in place to stop things happening like this when the customer is not there?? He did apologise and admit it was all his fault.

dunstonh

He today said that he misunderstood and had moved the isa for this year. I don't understand how he could have misunderstood??

Obviously that is based on the conversation he and your mum had.

Is there not some procedure in place to stop things happening like this when the customer is not there??

Yes. The application form date and/or the application form used. i.e. many actually state what tax year they are for on the application. Typically, one for the new tax year in advance would be dated 6th April 2010 and would indicate on the application that its for the new tax year.

How is it being resolved going forward?