Mobility Scooters - MP's Urge Action

Unity

karatedragon wrote: »

It says on that BBC article that they scooters weigh up to 150kg. I can well believe it. From what I see in my town the scooter weighs 5kg the rest is made up from the rider.

Heres an interesting rant on these things: http://www.whyihateeverything.co.uk/rants_peebz04.html

I hope not to appear antagonistic here and if it's a little incoherent blame it on the after effects of just having had my spine injected with pain-killers_pale_ .

I haven't read the rant, because to be honest, life's too short and these things are seldom funny and even less interesting. However I have to agree on the weight issue, a lot of the people using them look as though they could really benefit from even slight aerobic exercise - like gentle walking as the use of a scooter on a permanent basis will only compound morbid obesity. I have actually witnessed the one-handed driving technique to facilitate the ingestion of a Maccy D or Greggs pie , not to mention the scooter that is left outside a certain pub in town for hours on end :cool:.

I use a wheelchair when I have no alternative (crutches as often as I can) - and couldn't use one of these scooters even if I wanted to as my cervical spine and arms are affected, to the extent that I'm not even allowed to self-propel. I don't object to those in genuine need who use them responsibly. In my city if the assessment shows a need for a powered chair then one is issued. The fact that these people are not in powered chairs might suggest they are not at that stage, unless perhaps some LA's offer scooters instead of powered chairs, where appropriate. If it is simply a matter of personal choice and finance then I would say choose as far as possible to keep personally mobile - "Use it or lose it" is an awful thought when it comes to your legs .

I have no doubt at all that there are responsible users like Tri and Jaz and proper legislation should protect them rather than curtail their activities. However I'm really sad to say that in my experience responsible users are the exception rather than the rule. Locally - an 80-year-old woman was knocked down and killed by one of these, driven by a woman who drove off leaving her to die - what's worse I don't believe she came forward and the police are none the wiser! A school child was knocked down and injured whilst waiting at a Pelican crossing and there is a blatant disregard for the 'walking wounded' on crutches and with walking sticks. The Metro system operating in Newcastle has banned the use of these scooters after accidents involving people - not in proper control, zooming into the carriage from the platform and straight out of the opposite doors - onto the track :eek:.

From the insurance aspect, I would suspect that Shopmobility would (if they are not already covered) have to put insurance in place for those that hire them, maybe Oscar can enlighten me on this ? What about where they are hired out within a privately owned shopping centre like say The Metrocentre Gateshead - does the owner not have a duty of care to everyone using the premises?

As always common sense and concern for others, not to mention basic manners seems to be being ditched for what we might consider 'Chariot Rage' :rotfl:. The phrase "After you" seems to have disappeared from the language, to be replaced by "Get out of the way" and "I was here first!"

I can appreciate it gives people a new lease of life - but it doesn't give them the right to adopt the attitude of 'boy racers' - heck, it will be baseball caps on backwards and bandanas next, with 'Sons of Anarchy paint jobs! :rotfl:

Unity

scroft21 wrote: »

hi

I am use a power wheelchair, which by the way is very different to a scooter. Basicly becasue power wheelchair have seating degin for the user which means sure the user can drive the chair safely.

One question I have about all the issus around driving test ect is how it would work with children? I heard about a hild as young as 11month who drive a power wheelchair ? Should their a lower limb If so what ? which basicly mean disability child can not have independance until than ?.

any through welcome ?

sarah

There wouldn't be any problem with children as they, like you - use powered chairs (or younger and more disabled kids are usually propelled by an adult in control of a manual chair).

In the case of powered chairs, they are taught how to control them properly and I have seen even the most disabled children managing with the dexterity of a Formula 1 driver - giving them much greater opportunities to access the things they want to do.

The problem lies in the lack of funding for proper made-to-measure powered chairs for children and they can be on the list for up to ten years, effectively denying them a childhood!:( To my mind this is the just sort of thing that should be paid for from Lottery money, if there isn't sufficient funding available, instead of wasting it on non-essential things. No child should be denied the most active childhood possible just for the sake of cash - even though I know that these made to measure powered chairs are extremely expensive - and outgrown before they are outworn.

Mind you I also believe there should be a system in place for recycling the chairs that are outgrown, although I saw on tv recently that this can't be done.

sunnyone

jazabelle wrote: »

How do you get one, out of interest? Do you go through your GP, or someone else?

I'm just wondering if they would be open to someone having one for occational use. I'd want to keep hold of what mobility I have now around the home, and at work, but having a chair would mean access to much more, like shopping, visiting places I can't access now and other things. For example I'm going on holiday later in the year to a really nice part of the country, and I'm worried I'm only going to see if from a car.

What I mean is would the NHS expect you to use it 100% of the time, or say two-three times a week?

Do they fit in a car boot?

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with them!

You wouldnt get a NHS powerchair based on the above, the funds are limited and occasional use isnt funded but you are not expected to use it all the time either, I use a manual upstairs because I use a stairlift and another manual from garage into the house if theres no one there to get my powerchair out of the car for me (yes mine fits in the car, thats one of the reason I chose this one above the others)

You could get a manual wheelchair from wheelchair services, your GP can refer you or any consultant can do it, I didnt want a powerchair and turned them down many times until I couldnt propel myself anymore.

jazabelle

sunnyone wrote: »

You wouldnt get a NHS powerchair based on the above, the funds are limited and occasional use isnt funded but you are not expected to use it all the time either, I use a manual upstairs because I use a stairlift and another manual from garage into the house if theres no one there to get my powerchair out of the car for me (yes mine fits in the car, thats one of the reason I chose this one above the others)

You could get a manual wheelchair from wheelchair services, your GP can refer you or any consultant can do it, I didnt want a powerchair and turned them down many times until I couldnt propel myself anymore.

Thanks, was just wondering.

I wouldn't be able to propel myself with a manual wheelchair, as I have problems with my shoulders, arms and wrists.

Mrs_Ryan

Unity wrote: »

I The Metro system operating in Newcastle has banned the use of these scooters after accidents involving people - not in proper control, zooming into the carriage from the platform and straight out of the opposite doors - onto the track :eek:.

I've posted about this on the Money Savers Arms - my Mum was in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle several times about this, indeed as was I, and she actually took it to the Human Rights Commission (I was involved in this as well) after scooters were banned, Nexus who operate the Metro also withdrew the TaxiLink service which was a specially adapted bus or taxi which for a nominal fee meant scooter users could travel, leaving scooter users with no option but to pay for a taxi (which often wouldnt take them anyway, my Mum has terrible trouble finding a taxi company that will take her, she has a manual chair but she cannot propel herself and my Dad cant as he suffers later stage emphysema)
The banning of scooters meant a lot of people were effectively housebound, and also what they failed to mention (and we got them - or rather the Lawyers and Caseworkers at the Human Rights Commision did - to admit this) was that one of these so called scooters that overshot the platform at one Metro station was actually a powered wheelchair. :eek:

Mrm_3

Ah yes, the 'Mobility Scooter Menace'. We may as well create a whole new class of laws - the 'tut tut' laws. We could make it illegal for people to try and enter a train while people are getting off, ban people from crossing the road while wearing headphones, maybe require licenses for wheeled suitcases. Of course the mobility scooter thing is slightly different in that it would be the only one that would actually result in effective house arrest for people with limited mobility.

Unity

sunnyone wrote: »

You wouldnt get a NHS powerchair based on the above, the funds are limited and occasional use isnt funded but you are not expected to use it all the time either, I use a manual upstairs because I use a stairlift and another manual from garage into the house if theres no one there to get my powerchair out of the car for me (yes mine fits in the car, thats one of the reason I chose this one above the others)

You could get a manual wheelchair from wheelchair services, your GP can refer you or any consultant can do it, I didnt want a powerchair and turned them down many times until I couldnt propel myself anymore.

It must differ from LA to LA as ours will not provide a power chair unless the client is in it full time, especially within their own home.

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

I've posted about this on the Money Savers Arms - my Mum was in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle several times about this, indeed as was I, and she actually took it to the Human Rights Commission (I was involved in this as well) after scooters were banned, Nexus who operate the Metro also withdrew the TaxiLink service which was a specially adapted bus or taxi which for a nominal fee meant scooter users could travel, leaving scooter users with no option but to pay for a taxi (which often wouldnt take them anyway, my Mum has terrible trouble finding a taxi company that will take her, she has a manual chair but she cannot propel herself and my Dad cant as he suffers later stage emphysema)
The banning of scooters meant a lot of people were effectively housebound, and also what they failed to mention (and we got them - or rather the Lawyers and Caseworkers at the Human Rights Commision did - to admit this) was that one of these so called scooters that overshot the platform at one Metro station was actually a powered wheelchair. :eek:

I hadn't realised that there had been more than a couple of incidents involving scooters :eek:. Certainly the one I saw on the local news was where a scooter was driven from the platform onto the Metro carriage and straight out of the other side where the driver went head first onto the track! Thankfully there wasn't another train approaching at that point, but if there had been, I hate to think of the flashbacks the driver would be enduring now, not to mention the passengers on the train who witnessed this.

Has Nexus stopped providing the Taxi Voucher scheme too? I used the one last year - where you pay £5 each six months and get £100 worth of vouchers, it may be worth checking into. Last week I also saw a scooter user waiting at the bus stop outside the hospital, I wasn't aware this was allowed, but I suppose it is safer with having no exit door opposite like a Metro train. Is it possible for your mum to use the disabled friendly buses? No one should be left housebound and it's certainly worth taking up with the local politicians when they come canvassing for her vote .

Mrm wrote: »

Ah yes, the 'Mobility Scooter Menace'. We may as well create a whole new class of laws - the 'tut tut' laws. We could make it illegal for people to try and enter a train while people are getting off, ban people from crossing the road while wearing headphones, maybe require licenses for wheeled suitcases. Of course the mobility scooter thing is slightly different in that it would be the only one that would actually result in effective house arrest for people with limited mobility.

I think the death of an 80-year-old pedestrian, caused by a scooter driver who then fled the scene, certainly warrants more than a 'Tut tut' - but maybe I'm just being overly sensitive! :shocked:

As I see it, if common sense could prevail there wouldn't be a problem, scooter drivers would use their scooters responsibly and wouldn't object to lessons and a test. As to insurance - it is common sense that if you are in charge of something likely to cause a danger to others, you insure it. Unfortunately common sense should perhaps be re-named "uncommon sense" since it is so little seen these days and when it fails, then legislation unfortunately must take over.

sunnyone

The health trusts in the NE have one service that provides powerchairs for the whole region with the same criteria used throughout and you dont need to use it full time but you do have to pass a three part assessment that includes a home assessment (you must have a home thats suitable to use a powerchair in and you must need a wheelchair indoors sometimes), a test to prove that you are compitent to drive a powerchair (that includes eyesight and health check to make sure your not epileptic) and a practicle test drive of diffrent powerchairs in a specialist disabled services center.

They only supply indoor/outdoor powerchairs and being able to walk a bit dosnt mean that you cant have one, each case is assessed seperatly and in my case I turned down powerchairs at two assessments because of the transport difficulties but now I cant manage my manuals outdoors at all a powerchair allows me a bit freedom.(you can still have both manaual and powerchair supplied by wheelchair services)

More people should ask for powerchair assessments if they feel that they need them, if you dont drive a powerchair can open up your world if you live in an area that has assessable public transport, its harder if you drive because most cars are unsuitable for powerchairs and WAVs are very expensive (Im going to look at WAVs next week because I cant load/unload my powerchair into my car)

Mrm_3

Unity wrote: »

I think the death of an 80-year-old pedestrian, caused by a scooter driver who then fled the scene, certainly warrants more than a 'Tut tut' - but maybe I'm just being overly sensitive! :shocked:

Any avoidable loss of life is tragic of course, but when you consider there are over 100,000 mobility scooters in use the number of injuries sustained by pedestrians is miniscule.

People are regularly knocked down by other pedestrians, by cyclists, by dogs, the list is endless, but mobility scooters are the target de jour, why is that?

There is already laws that prevent the use of scooters over 4mph on the pavement, and laws governing the use of scooters on the road, if the police choose not to enforce them that is another matter. As for the very small minority of users who drive their scooters in an anti social manner, there is law for that too - give them an ASBO, isn't that what they are for?

What we do not need is additional cost and regulation around what is at the end of the day a mobility aid.

Unity

Mrm wrote: »

Any avoidable loss of life is tragic of course, but when you consider there are over 100,000 mobility scooters in use the number of injuries sustained by pedestrians is miniscule.

People are regularly knocked down by other pedestrians, by cyclists, by dogs, the list is endless, but mobility scooters are the target de jour, why is that?

There is already laws that prevent the use of scooters over 4mph on the pavement, and laws governing the use of scooters on the road, if the police choose not to enforce them that is another matter. As for the very small minority of users who drive their scooters in an anti social manner, there is law for that too - give them an ASBO, isn't that what they are for?

What we do not need is additional cost and regulation around what is at the end of the day a mobility aid.

Is it the number of injuries caused by scooters, or the number of reported injuries, caused by scooters that is miniscule?;) In reality the injuries are not caused by scooters of course but by the people driving them. Therefore if someone chooses to buy and use a scooter (rather than be provided with a wheelchair) in the same way that someone chooses to buy and use any other motor vehicle, it is only reasonable that they should be tested, as competent to drive (if they don't already have a valid driving licence) and insured against any deaths or injuries they cause - simples . To not be insured leaves them open to be sued by the injured party and possibly lose valuable possessions to meet a claim against them.

Whether or not the police choose to enforce the law is irrelevant to the people who end up injured. Furthermore why should the injured party have to bear the burden of loss due to someone else's negligence/incompetence?

The idea that someone driving a vehicle on the pavement and within shopping centres in close proximity to pedestrians, should not have to be insured is by far a more incredible situation. :shocked:

sunnyone wrote: »

The health trusts in the NE have one service that provides powerchairs for the whole region with the same criteria used throughout and you dont need to use it full time but you do have to pass a three part assessment that includes a home assessment (you must have a home thats suitable to use a powerchair in and you must need a wheelchair indoors sometimes), a test to prove that you are compitent to drive a powerchair (that includes eyesight and health check to make sure your not epileptic) and a practicle test drive of diffrent powerchairs in a specialist disabled services center.

They only supply indoor/outdoor powerchairs and being able to walk a bit dosnt mean that you cant have one, each case is assessed seperatly and in my case I turned down powerchairs at two assessments because of the transport difficulties but now I cant manage my manuals outdoors at all a powerchair allows me a bit freedom.(you can still have both manaual and powerchair supplied by wheelchair services)

More people should ask for powerchair assessments if they feel that they need them, if you dont drive a powerchair can open up your world if you live in an area that has assessable public transport, its harder if you drive because most cars are unsuitable for powerchairs and WAVs are very expensive (Im going to look at WAVs next week because I cant load/unload my powerchair into my car)

Thanks for this sunnyone, it's certainly something to keep in mind :beer:. Things must have changed, as I was only ever offered a battery pack to attach to a manual chair because I don't use it indoors. I even had to go down the voucher route - to get a lightweight chair with a suspension and that was a huge outlay, but at least I don't feel every bump on the journey. I prefer my crutches whenever possible, as usually I am just as uncomfortable sitting as standing but I swear some people on scooters see those of us on crutches as fair game (probably skittles :rotfl:). Do they honestly think I will de-materialise like the Tardis if they drive straight at me? Tell you what - it's not gonna happen .