Unfair eBay charges - looking for some advice

mark_t_4

Evening all,

This is my first post, so if I commit some huge social faux-pas then please forgive me.

Also, apologies for longness - believe it or not I've simplified things here.

A few months ago I decided to set up a direct debit (DD) to pay my pretty small eBay sellers fees rather than mucking about with credit cards and reminder emails. I filled in the on screen form, checked all the details and submitted it. Then I thought nothing of it, until the DD failed the first time eBay tried to collect some money from it.
I paid the fees with my credit card, along with the £5 that eBay charged for the failed DD and wondered why it failed, but didn't do anything more about it at this point.
The next few month's fees I paid by credit card before the due date, but then I missed one, and they tried to take another DD. Once again this DD failed, and they fined me a further £5.
So now I'm a bit irritated, and I phone up my bank and ask them what's going on, and why have I been charged this money, and what do they think they're playing at. The bank check their records, and say that they never received the DD mandate from eBay, so of course they couldn't pay the two requested transfers.
I then ask about the £5 charge, and the bank confirm that they do not make any charge to a retailer for a failed attempt to draw on a DD, so these £5 penalties are something that eBay have come up with, not something that they're passing along (which eBay had heavily implied in their email telling me that the DD had failed).
In the course of chatting to the guy from the bank he tells me that they have been seeing this a lot with eBay and PayPall, and that there must be something wrong with their systems.

At this point there's plenty of time before I have to pay my next set of eBay fees (a massive £1.20), so I email eBay explaining the situation and telling them that the bank claims never to have received the DD mandate, and if that's the case then I think that the two £5 fines are rather unfair, and could they refund the one I paid, and remove the one I haven't?
eBay email back confirming that I filled their forms in properly but they say that it's not their fault that there wasn't enough money in the account to cover the DD, and that the £5 fines are justified.
I email back explaining that that wasn't the problem, there was more than enough moeny to cover the amount, and that the problem was that it appears that they haven't sent the DD mandate to the bank.
They email back giving me instructions on how to set up a DD, and explaining their new system for transferring DD mandates to the bank.
I respond thanking them for this information, and point out that it appears that they still have fined me £10 for their failure to pass on a DD mandate to my bank.
They email back saying (I'm paraphrasing) "You signed a contract that agrees to pay a £5 fine if the DD fails", and pointing out, once again, that it's not their fault if there wasn't enough money in the account, and saying that the £5 fines are imposed by the bank on them, and they're simply passing them along.

So I get a bit annoyed at this and send them back a polite but sarcastic note restating my position (they failed to forward the DD mandate), and saying that the bank has specifically denied imposing a £5 charge, but if they can provide some evidence that the failure was down to myself or my bank then I will pay up, but unless they do I expect a refund. I've not had their (undoubtedly helpful and incisive) response yet, but I'm thinking it's probably about time someone explained to me how to set up a DD again.

In the meantime, due to the delay between emails being sent and responses showing up my fees have come due, there have been a string of increasingly threatening notes from eBay, and now my account has been suspended, and they're threatening to send a debt collection agency around. In my emails I have pointed out that I dispute the money owed, and I'm trying to settle it, and could they call off the dogs until we do, but they haven't even bothered to address that part of my notes.

So my question to the forum is, legally where do I stand. I did "sign" an agreement that said if the DD failed I would pay £5, but that agreement also said that eBay would forward the DD mandate on to my bank, so surely if they haven't done that then they can't impose a fine?
Also, with reference to the current unfair bank charges thing that's going on, does it really cost eBay £5 to send an email to me telling me that my DD has failed, and could I please pay some other way? Doesn't sound likely to me.
I do, of course, owe eBay £1.20 in fees, which I also haven't paid, given that I think they owe me £5. Is this a justified position, or should I pay that £1.20? Can I, in fact, just pay the £1.20, or will the system try to make me pay the whole amount including the second disputed £5?
Finally, any advise on what I should do if a debt collection agency should turn up to try to collect this money that I still maintain I do not owe (which they would say was at my expense, of course).

Thanks for reading this far, and thanks for any advice, and Booo Hissss Plllllllpppppp to eBay.

Mark

Sugar_Coated_Owl

It's very interesting that you mention that as I was beginning to think it was me that did something wrong. I set up a direct debit to pay my eBay seller fees but the money was never taken. I received an email stating that my bank was disputing the DD and therefore it had failed. I thought that perhaps it was just a one-off thing but no, it happened every month. I knew the money was in my account as it goes out just after I get paid. Anyway, I cancelled paying my eBay seller fees automatically. I now just pay via PayPal when I receive an invoice.

I'm contemplating attempting to set it up again but I'm not so sure now.

I would call PayPal and speak to a real person instead of sending numerous emails back and forth and never getting a real response. If it is PayPal's fault for not forwarding the DD mandate then you should be entitled to be reimbursed the £10 worth of fines.

Definately call them and get it sorted ASAP.

MarkyMarkD

PayPal won't physically submit a DD mandate at all. They'll set it up electronically using the AUDDIS system.

It's definitely their fault for not submitting the electronic request to BACS and hence to your bank, as long as you supplied the correct bank details.

Contains_Mild_Peril

I'd also tell them that you intend to seek clarification from your local Trading Standards office. I find that the mention of Trading Standards is sometimes useful in prompting companies to correct their errors.

soolin

Just to clarify that this is an ebay DD not a paypal DD as this does make a difference. Paypal are supposedly regulated by the FSA ,ebay are not ,therefore ebay will be treated just like any other retailer. As can be seen on the various forums on this site many retailers, even people like Sky and catalogue companies to make a charge for a failed DD whether or not it is their fault. I just paid a £2 charge to Orange phones because they failed to collect a DD.

Soo

frivolous_fay

I was hit by a £3 charge because I had to pay my T mobile bill by card - somewhere between Carphone Warehouse and T-mobile the details from the direct debit form that was completed and signed in the shop got lost!

T-mobile blamed Carphone Warehouse, Carphone Warehouse blamed T-mobile, but CW were the ones who ended up with me standing in their shop grumbling at them, so they gave me the £3 out of the till.

Idiots.

MarkyMarkD

MarkyMarkD wrote:

[STRIKE]PayPal[/STRIKE]EBay won't physically submit a DD mandate at all. They'll set it up electronically using the AUDDIS system.

It's definitely their fault for not submitting the electronic request to BACS and hence to your bank, as long as you supplied the correct bank details.

Apologies for error.