Section 8 vs section 21 - non payment of rent query

clutton_2

as a LL i have just got possession on a S.8 route - rent arrears and persistent lateness (prepare a schedule showing how many days late each months rent payment is) plus about another 6 breaches of the tenancy agreement.... (read the tenancy agreement with a fine tooth comb and find as many breaches as you can).

You can apply to the court for possession after 14 days from giving your tenant a S.8 notice.... Get your LA to do this - but do learn how to do it from N LA so that you know your agent is doing things properly

lf i were you i would join National Landlords Association and get their help in filling in the court forms... theirs is the cheapest way to get good legal advice via their Legal Help Line... joining fees are tax deductible.

lyndasharp

Just a quick update to say thanks for all your help and advice. tbs -yes, we'll need to relet. The flat is next to a building site so we will have to hold on to it until that's finished, as it's not exactly attractive at the moment.

We have no problems with the LA, they have earned their very reasonable fee and have been spot on dealing with the maintenance issues found at the beginning of the tenancy (a couple of failed PAT tests). We will make sure they do a SO for the next tenant though! They know he hadn't opened the letters because they were there unopened when they inspected the flat.

We've decided to go to court under the section 8. After investigating court dates, it really wasn't worth paying a solicitor as it'd be cheaper to let the tenant stay until the S21 came into force given the timescale - we wouldn't make back the difference by reletting. However have taken legal advice and have now submitted the court forms ourselves. Hopefully that will scare the tenant enough to get some rent paid... if not we'll see him in court!

clutton_2

i bet he wont turn up at court ... if he does not you will get judgement by default... then you have to work out how to find him, to get his new address, and to get a warrant of execution .... yet more expense

lyndasharp

Thanks again for the advice on here. Just thought you might like to know that the tenant didn't turn up at court and he now has 14 days to leave, we've also been awarded the rent and court costs. Will he actually pay? Will he even leave? Further update to follow in 14 days....

clutton_2

on day 15 go to the property and see if he is still there....even if the property is empty and he has clearly abandoned the property - legally speaking, you are then supposed to go to court and buy a Bailiffs Warrant £95 and then wait 1-2-3-4 weeks for the bailiffs to attend -

its up to you if you take the risk of changing the locks on Day 15 (provided the property is empty of all his possessions thats what i would do - have done)

no tenant who has abandoned the property, taken all his stuff, and owes rent and has a CCJ against him will even consider taking out an "unlawful eviction" order against you...


but as i said, legally you must leave the property empty till the bailiff turns up.....

write off the money - get a new tenant and move on......

Wee_Willy_Harris

clutton wrote: »

on day 15 go to the property and see if he is still there....even if the property is empty and he has clearly abandoned the property - legally speaking, you are then supposed to go to court and buy a Bailiffs Warrant £95 and then wait 1-2-3-4 weeks for the bailiffs to attend -

its up to you if you take the risk of changing the locks on Day 15 (provided the property is empty of all his possessions thats what i would do - have done)

no tenant who has abandoned the property, taken all his stuff, and owes rent and has a CCJ against him will even consider taking out an "unlawful eviction" order against you...


but as i said, legally you must leave the property empty till the bailiff turns up.....

write off the money - get a new tenant and move on......

I agree with Clutton. But one little thing to keep in mind. Illegal eviction IS a criminal offfence, not a civil matter. On conviction you may receive a custodial sentance and/or a hefty fine. Your former tenant could also sue for (substantial) damages.

clutton_2

it is a criminal offence and no doubt landlords have been fined heftily and even sent to prison in the past when ACTUALLY evicting a tenant for no good reason - especially after a series of harrassing contacts - like in the old bad days of RAchmann and Nicholas Van oossstreogen (or whatever he is called) .... such criminal activities certainly do deserve harsh punishment

changing the locks after obtaining a legal court order for possession is altogether a different kettle of fish.....

even if the tenant did sue... and HOW unlikely is that... what exactly has been his/her loss ? - expecially if a LL has photos of an empty property to show that it was Reasonable to assume abandoment......

this hot potatoe of "criminal offence... landlords will be sent to prison in droves" really annoys me on here...

like any offence - there are minor infringements and major culpabilities.. this forum seem frequently to jump to the "major" without any good reason....

lyndasharp

Cheers, will be very careful - and we're not really expecting to see the money!

Wee_Willy_Harris

clutton wrote: »

it is a criminal offence and no doubt landlords have been fined heftily and even sent to prison in the past when ACTUALLY evicting a tenant for no good reason - especially after a series of harrassing contacts - like in the old bad days of RAchmann and Nicholas Van oossstreogen (or whatever he is called) .... such criminal activities certainly do deserve harsh punishment

changing the locks after obtaining a legal court order for possession is altogether a different kettle of fish.....

even if the tenant did sue... and HOW unlikely is that... what exactly has been his/her loss ? - expecially if a LL has photos of an empty property to show that it was Reasonable to assume abandoment......

this hot potatoe of "criminal offence... landlords will be sent to prison in droves" really annoys me on here...

like any offence - there are minor infringements and major culpabilities.. this forum seem frequently to jump to the "major" without any good reason....

I was just pointing out the full facts (and I did use the word "may" as a qualifier). Landlords, like everybody else, should be able to make INFORMED deecisions. And it's not just the hooooograaatons of this world.

Cashmere v. Walsh, Downing and Veale – Central London County Court, 27 October 2009

In this case Mr Cashmere had an assured tenancy of a flat in the Docklands from 1990. The flat was bought by Ms Downing in 2000 as a ‘bare trustee’ for Mr Walsh. Ms Veale was Ms Downings mother and an associate of Mr Walsh.
There were a number of problems with the flat’s condition, for example an inoperative heater, a defective toilet handle, and the like. In December 2007 Ms Downing and Ms Veale asked him to move out so that repair works could be done He did this, handed the keys over, and allowed the landlord to clear the flat of his belongings.
The repair works were done, but when Mr Cashmere asked for a key so he could move back in again, this was refused. He was told that he could not have they keys or his possessions back because there were rent arrears. He tried several times to contact them, and his solicitors wrote, but were told that Mr Walsh was now the owner and that a new tenant was now in occupation.
At the hearing HHJ Cowell found that Mr Cashmere had been duped into handing over the keys and that there had never been any intention of letting him have the flat back. Damages were awarded as follows:

• Mr Walsh (as owner of the premises) £73,215
• Ms Downing (as co-owner just before the eviction and Mr Walsh’s agent at all times) £33,715
• Ms Veale (as agent of Mr Walsh and a controlling influence over the others) £24,515.

An eye popping total of £81,215! I expect Mr Cashmere is feeling a bit better about things now.

clutton_2

wee willy..... i despair.... comparing this case you have outlined (which clearly was a case of deliberate conspiracy by several people) and my suggesting changing locks on an empty house after getting a Court Order for possession is just plain daft.....

i see that EVEN though you have found what you consider to be landlords from hell... there is still no prison sentence...

please stop scare-mongering and causing newbies un-necessary anxiety by telling them they will be to prison.....

do please try and keep your objective hat on ........