Faulty digital piano - who is responsible for disassembly/repackaging?

gokhart

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can offer advice on getting bulky items replaced as there is the added inconvenience of disassembly/reassembly...

I bought a Yamaha Clavinova over the web from Biggars in Glasgow which was delivered on 4 March. This was found to be damaged upon unpacking and assembly on 5 March. The faults were witnessed by my neighbour (a professional musician), who assisted me with unpacking and assembling the instrument. I took a short video clip showing the fault (unfortunately the forum doesn't let me post links yet)

Details of the fault, including photographs, were communicated to the seller by phone and email the same day. The keys are out of alignment and appear to have been pushed to the left and upwards and lie at an incline. The bottom A key is also chipped. When signing the delivery report I clearly indicated that the goods were not inspected, next to my signature.

I wrote to the seller to claim a replacement of the goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended).

The legislation states (section 48B) that this must be done ʻwithin a reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience to the buyerʼ and (when the buyer opts for a replacement) 'the seller must bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).'

In addition, the distance selling regulations (see OFT website - page 30 section 3.65) state that if a trader sells self-assembly products he cannot insist that the goods be returned disassembled and in their original packaging.

I was only offered the replacement today (after about 4 weeks of standstill) and haven't yet accepted the offer of replacement as I disagree with the seller on the points below. Can anyone help?

My questions are:

- the seller has asked me to make the faulty piano available for uplift, and once this have been received and inspected, arrange for delivery of the new piano. However, I feel that it is the sellers responsibility to minimise inconvenience to me, the buyer, by taking care of disassembly/repackaging/transporting the 100kg piano up and down the stairs and lifting the new piano up the stairs, unpacking and assembling it. I cannot do it by myself without assistance - as the owner's manual states, it is a heavy item and requires two people. I also believe that this constitutes 'labour', and costs for labour should be met by the seller as specified in the Sales of Goods Act.

If the seller cannot offer this service then he should reimburse me the costs for doing so. His own quote (at the time of purchase) was £150 for transportation upstairs and assembly which I declined at the time. However, I am being inconvenienced by having to do this again as the goods are faulty. Therefore can I claim £150 for having to take care of this myself?

- I also wish to claim compensation for 'significant inconvenience', as the replacement has taken a disproportionate amount of time to sort out (4 weeks) compared with the original order (1 week) - in fact, the seller has had my money since January. In recognition of the fact that the seller has had my money all this time, can I reclaim interest on the sum I originally paid?

Usually when I buy goods online they tend to be pretty small and dealing with postage/packing issues is straightforward! However, I would be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had issues with bulky items - it's not fun having to confined to home all day waiting for large deliveries to arrive...

Govind

pinkshoes

gokhart wrote: »

- the seller has asked me to make the faulty piano available for uplift, and once this have been received and inspected, arrange for delivery of the new piano. However, I feel that it is the sellers responsibility to minimise inconvenience to me, the buyer, by taking care of disassembly/repackaging/transporting the 100kg piano up and down the stairs and lifting the new piano up the stairs, unpacking and assembling it. I cannot do it by myself without assistance - as the owner's manual states, it is a heavy item and requires two people. I also believe that this constitutes 'labour', and costs for labour should be met by the seller as specified in the Sales of Goods Act.

I think you're mis-reading their instructions. "Available for uplift" just means phone them to arrange a time and date for someone to come round and get it, and ditto for arranging delivery of a new one. Hardly a trauma!! I'd give them a fair chance to do this first before thinking about compensation.

gokhart

No, they specificially have stated both over the phone and by email that they want the goods repackaged. I should have mentioned this.

This will require a significant amount of time and labour by two people.

Owain_Moneysaver

Did you pay by credit card? Tell the card co they are jointly liable and you want a refund on your card account. Then let them worry about how they get their piano back.

jdturk

I would read labour as paying a tradesman to install it for you and as you didn't I cannot see how you will get recompense for that unless you can provide a bill from a recognised tradesman.

Define Reasonable? 4 weeks is probably at the upper limits of reasonable IMO.

I personally think that you should if possible make things as easy as possible for the transaction to be completed which to be honest it doesn't seem you are doing (even if you may be in the right).

gokhart

Thanks for all the responses.

I have been trying to make things as easy as possible for the dealers... this is the full story.

I phoned them straight away when I discovered the fault, I emailed them as well, I sent them photos illustrating exactly what was wrong. They got back to me and said they 'would get the wheels in motion'. Concerned when I hadn't heard anything a full week later, I emailed them again and they said 'we are still waiting for a replacement from Yamaha'. By now I was starting to get concerned as the original order had taken just one week to fulfil (even though they didn't have it in stock) and I could not understand why a replacement was taking longer than this, especially for a mass-produced item.

Then they emailed me and said 'Yamaha have now received a replacement and are sending it to us, we should have it early next week'. So I thought, good news, I'll give them till the end of next week. The week passed, and I had heard no further, so at this stage I wrote to them setting my concerns in writing and saying that if the replacement wasn't with me in a further week's time I would contact my credit card company. I didn't get any response.

It is only through my making one further phone call to them - at 4.15pm on the final day of the deadline I had set for them - that I found out that they have now got the replacement. In fact they had received it the day before and hadn't got around to informing me! This I find particularly upsetting as they were supposed to be dealing with it as a matter of urgency.

The issue I have is that they haven't been keeping me abreast of what they are doing to put the problem right. I am having to chasing them and this isn't how to treat customers, especially when they have already paid close to £1500. Yes, I have contacted my credit card company, and I am also informing Yamaha as Biggars are an authorised Yamaha dealer.

I have got some informal legal advice - I've been told that 'if they are liable for the fault then the cost of the removal and repacking flow from that fault as consequential loss'. Assuming the item was damaged in transit surely the trader can claim from the couriers - they will be insured?

Govind

Dick_Van_Dyke

You are being unreasonable and looking to profit.

You didnt pay for an installation service hence can't expect the replacement to be installed for you and the old one "uninstalled"

4 weeks for a specialist piece of music equipment isnt particularly long I would suggest

Ask your friend to help you again, get your replacement and stop expecting more than you have paid for.

mikey72

If you paid for delivery, unpacking, and installation, that's what they should do. If you bought a flat pack for self assembly, tbh you should have been expected to see it before assembly, and not put it together in the first place. The danger of assembling it all is that then you could be blamed for the damage after unpacking.
If you don't re-pack it for their courier, they can easily charge you for the replacement as well, as you will not have returned the original.

wuckfit

Lets face it, you bought an expensive item for a knock-down price mail order. Probably not much more than trade price, which is why the dealer wanted to charge you £150 for delivery and assembly. You declined that service, but feel the dealer should be liable to pay YOU the same amount for you having to repackage the instrument and get it ready for collection by a courier. Had you bought it locally, the local dealer would be unlikely to charge you £150 for delivery and assembly.
What I have trouble with understanding is why, if the instrument was damaged, you continued to assemble it.
It's all very well to be 'moneysaving' but the reason the dealer wanted £150 for delivery and assembly was because of the time away from the store, the fuel costs and the skills involved in putting the instrument together. Had you accepted his quote for delivery/assembly, you'd still have saved on the 'list' price AND you'd probably have got the first instrument in perfect working order.

gokhart

I've waited a while before responding as this has been a complicated process and it just seemed easier to let everything take its course and let you guys know what the outcome was.

The good news is that I finally have my Yamaha CLP340 and it is all set up and working fine. :cool:

However, things have not been an easy ride at all. I had to contact my Credit card company, Consumer Direct and even a UK Sales Manager at Yamaha's Electronic Music division to get in touch with the owner of Biggars Music to find out what was going on. This really shouldn't have been necessary.

The main problem I had with Biggars was lack of communication. Emails, letters going unanswered and then when I finally called 21 days after reporting the fault I was told 'oh, the new piano arrived yesterday.' Hardly an indication that they were treating the problem with any sense of urgency!

We agreed by phone (my neighbour called Biggars on my behalf, acting as a mediator, as I was getting pretty stressed out) and an agreement was reached whereby I would re-package the faulty piano to the best of my ability and as soon as it had been uplifted they would dispatch the new one. They then called me back an hour later and said that as a goodwill gesture they would throw some sheet music into the box for me. Hardly an adequate compensation for what I'd been through, but it showed that things were moving the right way so I accepted.

My piano was uplifted according to plan, but the story doesn't end there. Biggars dispatched the new piano, but it didn't arrive the next day despite them giving a guarantee over the phone that I would definitely have it that day. The couriers, UK Mail, managed to lose it! It ended up taking nine days and endless phone calls to UK Mail - they had to escalate it up to managers as nobody knew where the piano was. Add to this the fact that I was having to stay at home each day to await its delivery. To add to the problems, the guy at Biggars went away after a couple of days so he just gave me the phone number for the Glasgow office for UK Mail so I could continue to chase them myself. They would answer my calls, but would tell me 'sorry, we still don't know where it is, it may arrive tomorrow'.

When I eventually got a call on 8 April saying it had been located it was delivered to me 7pm that evening, as promised, unfortunately it arrived upside down in the van (I took a photo and signed for it as goods delivered upside down!) Again both myself and my neighbour had to help get the 103kg box out of the van - those couriers really do cut corners whereever they can as they are supposed to be able to deliver it to your doorstep. (UKMail had even told me on the phone that they would provide 2 people but the driver turned up on his own)

I recognize that the incompetence of UK Mail isn't really Biggars fault. However Biggars didn't even bother with a follow up phone call or email to check the piano had arrived safely and that I was satisfied. The first I heard from Biggars was yesterday when they posted a message in response to review I left for them on Qype! You can view their message and my response by searching for Biggars in Glasgow on Qype (sorry I can't post links yet).

There is a certain amount that I can put down to (a) bad luck and (b) experience but what I do feel entitled to claim is whatever small amount of compensation UK Mail offer for the delayed delivery of the replacement - it was nine days late. I have the packing note, showing it was dispatched by a 24 hour service, but I suspect Biggars would have to make the claim, as they are the customer. Any ideas on how to proceed?


Specific responses to valid points that have been raised by wuckfit/!!!!!! van Dyke:

Q. "What I have trouble with understanding is why, if the instrument was damaged, you continued to assemble it. "

A. Of course it would have been pointless to assemble it had I known it was broken. The piano is delivered in components and the main 'keyboard' part is towards the bottom of the box (which weighs 103kg) and is delivered with the piano lid closed with several pieces of tape keeping it down. The assembly instructions are very specific and so we didn't actually try opening the piano lid until it was mounted and screwed in place and initially we thought there had been a piece of tape we had forgotten to remove.

I do have a video showing the fault in better detail, search for 'Yamaha CLP340 - arrived damaged' on YouTube.

Q "Had you accepted his quote for delivery/assembly, you'd still have saved on the 'list' price AND you'd probably have got the first instrument in perfect working order."

A. Biggars said to me by email that 'i would reckon this (the damage) was more than likely to have happened in transit to the uk rather to yourself' which implies that they didn't even bother to open the box before sending it to me. As for saving on the list price, well I can't find any dealer that charges the list price, Chappels in Central London charge about £100 more and £30 extra for setup if required. This is why I opted for a replacement rather than a refund. Biggars have since increased their prices quite considerably.

Q: "You didnt pay for an installation service hence can't expect the replacement to be installed for you and the old one "uninstalled""

A: The informal legal advice I got was that (as you say) I would have to assemble the replacement myself (when it finally arrived) but that Biggars were responsible for the disassembly of the faulty unit. The guidelines from the Office of Fair Trading on self-assembly products can be found by going to the OFT website, downloading the pdf guide "A guide to businesses on distance selling" and navigating to section 3.65 (again, wish I could post links!)

gordikin

You really need to ask yourself what you want? Is the piano working? Have you got a good deal? Time to move on and forgive and forget perhaps?