consumer unit advice

mutley74

We had our consumer (fuse box) changed to a 12 way RCD type today.

The electrican said he could not issue a certificate as system failed on following points:

-upstairs lights have no earthing connection.
-kitchen sockets are 1.5mm2 cable not 2.5mm2.
-some sockets use braided wire not solid core.
-some sockets in the same room seem to be on different ring mains.

my question for anyone with experience of consumer units and electrical systems is he righ to fail us on the above points?
Are we legally obliged to change the points identifed? What happens if we dont to the fail points he found? Do we have to do this if we sell the house in future?

many thanks

waynehayes

He cannot withhold a certificate for the work he has done, and shouldn't have done the work if he was not prepared to issue one. He should have discussed any concerns he had with you before he changed the board as all of the 'faults' would have been evident at the consumer unit. Did he do that? Do you know who his Part P scheme provider is? Elecsa, Napit, Niceic for example? If he refuses your certificate, then contact them and explain the situation.
You are not legally obliged to carry out any suggested works, but from a safety point of view it would be a good idea and any future house purchasers may ask to see any certs or have an inspection of their own, then may try to get the price of this work knocked off the house price.

mutley74

waynehayes wrote: »

He cannot withhold a certificate for the work he has done, and shouldn't have done the work if he was not prepared to issue one. He should have discussed any concerns he had with you before he changed the board. Did he do that? Do you know who his Part P scheme provider is? Elecsa, Napit, Niceic for example? If he refuses your certificate, then contact them and explain the situation.
You are not legally obliged to carry out any suggested works, but from a safety point of view it would be a good idea and any future house purchasers may ask to see any certs or have an inspection of their own, then may try to get the price of this work knocked off the house price.

Hi thanks for reply. Well he did not actually refuse to issue certificate, but said that no point in issuing one due to points failed on. He is NAPIT P registered.
He just checked former consumer unit and could not identify any problems beforehand. Concerns really only identifed when the old board was removed and when he was checking sockets and replacing some light switches.

mikey72

He has to issue one for work done, and also has to self certify to part p, and inform building control. He should make the observations above.

zax47

He can happily issue a certificate (EIC, Electrical Installation Certificate) and list any deviations from BS7671:2008 in the section for deviations!

He would have to note the limitation of the lighting circuit without CPC (Earth) to only use Class 2 fittings and plastic switches and note this at the CU.

If the kitchen sockets are run in 1.5mm then he should fit the appropriate size breaker in the CU (to protect the circuit/cable correctly) and note the deviation on the EIC.

Braided/twisted cores are often found in older installations (imperial cables), if he feels it's an issue then note it as a deviation - what's the problem?

Sockets in 1 room on different rings - again note it so that in future people working on the installation will know, should be noted in circuit list on CU which breakers apply to which circuits anyway. Anyone with half a brain would (double) check for dead before working anyway. It's poor design, often caused by DIY additions, but not strictly against any regs.

If he were doing a PIR (Periodic Inspection Report) then none of those items listed would be Code 1 (Dangerous, rectify IMMEDIATELY), nothing there to "fail" the installation from a "legal" perspective. He's a) covering his !!!! and b) no idea of filling out an EIC properly!

If I were to have concerns about anything there then it would be the kitchen sockets run in 1.5mm first and the lack of upstairs lighting earth second. For my own piece of mind (as an electrician) I'd correct these regardless.

mutley74

Thanks for replies.
I will ask him for a certificate as he is comoing next week for some other jobs, also he said he would do a full test (not sure why he did not do that after the new unit was fitted).

Zax47- i agree its nice to get all the jobs updated to current standard, but our concern is that he will have to chase the new wires thro the walls and ceiling - meaning current decoration will have to be redone!

What size circuit breaker should be used for the kitchen using 1.5mm wiring?

DVardysShadow

As already said, he should issue a certificate for what he has done. When you come to sell the house, you are likely to be asked to provide certificates. The problems already identified are defensible for lack of certificate because they predate the legislation. Your consumer unit is not defensible and could raise suspicions about the quality of work.

zax47

mutley74 wrote: »

What size circuit breaker should be used for the kitchen using 1.5mm wiring?

Depends on the length and installation method (insulation, grouping etc.), but if it's buried in the wall and less than 10m long then 16A for a radial or 20A if it's a ring. Either way the cable is seriously undersized for the load - at 16A you can only load the circuit to around 4.5kW and your kettle could well be 3kW plus a microwave at maybe 800 or 900W!

---lee---

mutley74 wrote: »

but our concern is that he will have to chase the new wires thro the walls and ceiling - meaning current decoration will have to be redone!

So what! I would be concerned about a dangerous installation that could overheat and cause a fire at any time. How can safety be compared to a bit of decorating? Get your wiring checked before decorating.

waynehayes

mutley74 wrote: »

but our concern is that he will have to chase the new wires thro the walls and ceiling - meaning current decoration will have to be redone!

What size circuit breaker should be used for the kitchen using 1.5mm wiring?

An alternative to chasing out the wall would be to use plastic trunking, which, if installed properly can look OK.

lagi

mutley74 wrote: »

-upstairs lights have no earthing connection.
-kitchen sockets are 1.5mm2 cable not 2.5mm2.

These are the 2 i would think about getting done though.

1.5mm is for lighting not sockets. A lot of electrical items in a kitchen. Fridge, kettle, microwave, washing machine etc are on that circuit.