1st Direct refuse passport and bank a/c ID

missionary_2

I have been a 1st Direct customer for many years, and do not owe them any funds etc, preferring to use a current account to pay all my household bills.

When I re-married 10 years ago I added my wife’s name to form joint accounts with the several that I have with the Co-op. As usual my wife had to go through the hoops to identify herself and supplied passport copy etc. For the first few years of our marriage we lived and worked overseas, moving back to UK in recent times.

I have recently applied to 1st Direct to convert my current a/c into joint names. They sent a long form that asked all the usual questions plus supply at least one utility bill or bank statement with my wife’s name on it for ID.

As a non EU passport holder my wife holds a spouse ‘leave to enter’ visa for the customary 2 year probation period, my wife is not on the electoral roll, so local ID is not easy. We thought that the bank statement with the Co-op would be good enough. We had a follow-up letter for 1st Direct telling us that 2 forms of ID were requested and not just the one that we had sent. I phoned 1st Direct and asked them to look at their form which does not request 2 forms of ID at any point.

However, I explained that my wife is not included on any utility bills and is not on the electoral roll for the obvious reason. But I did suggest that her passport was acceptable ID for the bank on which they have seen her name on a statement, so would they accept that.

1st Direct said they would consider accepting it, and then told me to go to a local HSBC branch and get a copy of her passport certified by their staff and then get them to send it through the bank’s internal post.

This was duly done (including a copy of my wife’s leave to enter visa).

1st Direct have now refused to recognise her passport and UK visa as sufficient evidence and declined to convert my account to joint names. Oh, if only they realised how much info has to be supplied to the Border Agency for her to even have that visa, it makes the bank’s requirements seem juvenile.

We consider this action totally unfair and discriminatory against legitimate immigrants to the UK who are married to UK nationals.

Has anyone else had the same problem?

In despair

mish

fawinds

There is a big problem in the UK about ID. We are against a Government issued ID card because we believe it breaks our privacy, but most of us need a passport as ID in our own country. Funny, if you consider passports are intended for international travel, and not for domestic use... and the database where passport information is stored is the same as for ID cards.

Then you go about doing almost anything and there you are needing loads of utility bills, bank statements, Inland Revenue documents and so on just to prove who you are and where you live.

We want privacy but give away our privacy every time we produce a bank or credit card statement to a private company.

That makes no sense to me.

Anyway, since your wife is a foreign national from a non-EEA country, get her an ID card and use it. As far as I know non-EEA foreign nationals can now apply for them: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/managingborders/idcardsforforeignnationals/

Since it is a British Government issued ID card, it has to be taken by the bank.

Also, if she drives, get her a UK driving licence, which is quite good as an ID document too. In case she already has a foreign driving licence, take a look at here as she might be able to exchange it for a UK one: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DrivingInGbOnAForeignLicence/DG_4022562

MPH80

We had the same issue with Cap One with my wife as an additional card holder (which was even more ridiculous as she wasn't even liable for the debt) - and had the same issue given my wife is non-EU too.

Having said that - our bank took her passport without question when adding her to our joint account.

Presumably your wife entered under VAF4A as a spouse hence why she doesn't have an ID card yet.

I can't really help on getting 1st direct to take the passport - but you should, if you haven't already, read the requirements for SET(M) and begin collecting documents in both your names. Of course, give it a year or so, and the probationary citizenship rules will be in place and heaven knows what they'll want.

I'd get her added to your gas/electricity/phone/water bill and use those for 1st direct.

M.

Old_Wrinkly

fawinds wrote: »

There is a big problem in the UK about ID. We are against a Government issued ID card because we believe it breaks our privacy, but most of us need a passport as ID in our own country.

No, we don't. Though many people think they do.

Then you go about doing almost anything and there you are needing loads of utility bills, bank statements, Inland Revenue documents and so on just to prove who you are and where you live.

Only if you kowtow to the 'jobsworths'.

We want privacy but give away our privacy every time we produce a bank or credit card statement to a private company.

That makes no sense to me.

Nor me.

Anyway, since your wife is a foreign national from a non-EEA country, get her an ID card and use it.

Or, if the intention is now to remain in this country, to consider naturalisation as a British Citizen. (ID cards might be on their way out.)

Since it is a British Government issued ID card, it has to be taken by the bank.

:rotfl:

missionary_2

Thanks for your responses.

I did not intend asking for advice on immigration. We are very much aware of how the systerm works and before applying for naturalisation one has to go through the 2 year probation. In fact my wife qualifies for naturalisation immediately that runs out as she has documented residence of 5 years. (Evidence of continuous correspondence with Border Agency in the period). She is also sitting the dreaded citizenship exam next week. Now, please let that be an end to the topic. This is about a bank's attitude to the validity of a passport, which is accepted by other banks working under the same money laundering security rules.

ID cards are an idea (my wife got her leave to enter before the regs came into force) but she also comes from a country where ID cards and internal passport were mandatory. Like any citizen of such countries she will be very pleased not to have an ID card ever again if at all possible. We have also worked in countries where locals have an ID card which not only makes it hell for the locals but almost impossible to get-by easily for foreign visitors who do not have ID. (Please note my handle, it may just reflect the sort of work we do and the 'nice' countries in which we work).

My wife also has never had a driving licence, she hoped to learn to drive here, but again our government have restrictions and a provisional licence is only issued to those who have leave to remain.

We naturally know about collecting various docs for naturalisation, but again an NI card and NHS registration card are not good enough for Ist Direct as evidence that she exists. Getting a name on a utility bill is not always so easy as they now check names against the electoral roll. Not on the roll, then they query the name. I have recently switched energy supplier and asked for the account in joint names but so far a request that has been ignored.

I think the only problem is that 1st Direct have never thought through their policy on ID and have made no allowance for those in our position.

I hope that one of Martin's team can get a comment from him on this as he is very keen to watch how banks treat their customers.

mish

MPH80

missionary wrote: »

Thanks for your responses.

<snip>

My wife also has never had a driving licence, she hoped to learn to drive here, but again our government have restrictions and a provisional licence is only issued to those who have leave to remain.

That's odd - my wife got her provisional DL when she was here on a temporary 6-month fiancee settlement visa - passed her test 6 months later after she transitioned to FLR(M).

Getting a name on a utility bill is not always so easy as they now check names against the electoral roll. Not on the roll, then they query the name. I have recently switched energy supplier and asked for the account in joint names but so far a request that has been ignored.

Really? When did they bring this in? I got my wife added with a phone call 6 months ago. She's not on the electoral roll and they didn't require any proof - just wanted to talk to her.

You can obviously also ensure she's on the council tax bill.

I think the only problem is that 1st Direct have never thought through their policy on ID and have made no allowance for those in our position.

I agree - but then people in your position (like myself and wife) are in a minority and FD probably, in reality, don't care when they have plenty of customers who *can* fulfill the situation. There are other banks out there that will accept your wife's passport.

What people are attempting to offer is solutions to the problem - and the immigration question is tied to that as it affects what proof she can provide.

M.

P.s. I know you said you wanted an end to the topic of immigration - but this caught my eye:

In fact my wife qualifies for naturalisation immediately that runs out as she has documented residence of 5 years.

I just want to check you are aware that one requirement for naturalisation is that you have to be free of immigration restrictions at point of application meaning that your wife doesn't automatically qualify - she must gain ILR first (under the current rules).

Of course - she might have been granted the ILE immediately if you'd be married long enough - but I'm only trying to help!

missionary_2

MPH80 you got the message that I did not want this topic to spill over into other matters.

But for the record we were married 10 years ago in Bolton.

ILE/ILR is all sorted via an efficient immigration lawyer. Proof of residence is now a major factor and she has 5 years - 1st Direct please note.

Other matters are factual and from our own recent bitter experience. I have a remarkable series of emails from DVLA on the provisional licence matter that should be framed and on a wall. Utilities make-up their own rules as they choose fit - then change them the next month. ID has become a major stumbling block as all these people only see in their narrow vision, UK citizens, resident here, and on the electoral roll. Others need not apply.

mish

praxisizer

fawinds wrote: »

There is a big problem in the UK about ID. We are against a Government issued ID card because we believe it breaks our privacy, but most of us need a passport as ID in our own country. Funny, if you consider passports are intended for international travel, and not for domestic use... and the database where passport information is stored is the same as for ID cards.

I believe I'm correct in saying that I've never once had to provide a passport as proof of ID. I don't have a copy of my birth certificate, so I've never had to use that, either.

We want privacy but give away our privacy every time we produce a bank or credit card statement to a private company.

That makes no sense to me.

For what it's worth, my personal reasons for making a distinction include: The statement-/bill-based ID verification process you describe is not automated (good for privacy), requires per-verification consent, and doesn't come with a stonking great database for somebody to leave on a train and join with ten other stonking great national government databases in an intrusive, authoritarian, and destabilising fashion.