Another take on 'affordability'.

CloudCuckooLand

Really2 wrote: »

yes I dare say people do holiday in the UK during school holidays even if they don't have kids.

utter rubbish.

the increased cost of deals during school holidays makes it a no-brainer to holiday in term time.

even people with kids will take their kids out of school, if they can get away with it.

and its often a deliberate choice of non-population-increasing people to holiday when the kids are IN school, after all a holiday is supposed to be relaxing, not torture.

- and still choose a private pool with Villa, in case the brats are skipping school.

fc123

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Actually, at 200K per child, everyone could be a millionaire just by not having 5 kids.

Imagine that......

(I so miss the rolleyes smiley)

I have never dared to add it up. ..........

...but mushy head days, all those well-fitting shoes, fads and fancies in plush and plastic, school fees, trips, ballet lessons.......a tidy sum I guess.

The 16 yr old is in the grunting stage which is fun as I have to be really grown up and not grunt back...... if I do it can flare up into a pointless teen tiff, which then gives me the hump and I get grumpy head which is not good for work.

I found toddlers far harder though.....harder than any job I have ever done.

LilacPixie

Going on holiday with kids is a huge huge expense. almost 2k for a week in mainland spain, may for 2 adults and 2 toddlers aged 2 and 3, admittedly that is all inclusive but still ouch.

Really2

LilacPixie wrote: »

Going on holiday with kids is a huge huge expense. almost 2k for a week in mainland spain, may for 2 adults and 2 toddlers aged 2 and 3, admittedly that is all inclusive but still ouch.

But that is my point if you budgeted £1000 before you had kids like the OP scenario you would still budget £1000.
The ultimate part of it is that you perhaps look closer to home.
Unless people are some how earning more when having children?

My point is and that seems to being diverted from is these "costs £100K+ to bring up children". It is not extra money you have to earn when you have them but you move round your funds to cope.
So in fact you still earn the same as a couple without children and still most probably spend the same.
Just that the couple without children spend it on other stuff. (Like I said I do not spend any more now than I did before we had a child just that we spend it in different ways)

But to add if the couple in the OP's scenario did have a child what benefits would they receive?

tara747

Really2 wrote: »

But that is my point if you budgeted £1000 before you had kids like the OP scenario you would still budget £1000.
The ultimate part of it is that you perhaps look closer to home.
Unless people are some how earning more when having children?

My point is and that seems to being diverted from is these "costs £100K+ to bring up children". It is not extra money you have to earn when you have them but you move round your funds to cope.
So in fact you still earn the same as a couple without children and still most probably spend the same.
Just that the couple without children spend it on other stuff. (Like I said I do not spend any more now than I did before we had a child just that we spend it in different ways)

But to add if the couple in the OP's scenario did have a child what benefits would they receive?

Mmm, this is probably true, for one thing you wouldn't have much of a social life for the first few years so that would save £££s! :rotfl:

Cleaver, this is a very interesting thread. I am not so sure that everyone thinks like your fictional couple though. OH and I earn around £60k between us (and have a sizeable deposit) and even we are not sure whether we would be able to afford to buy a house right now. We have done the sums and plotted a separate graph based on having kids in a few years and it would be tight enough! And this would be borrwing just over 2x joint income.

I can tell you, everyone I know is bring super careful about money and major purchases right now. Having said that, we have just seen a house that we absolutely love (we would not pay the asking price though).

lemonjelly

Interesting debate.

I think the main reason why there is unaffordability has been made already in the thread - ie people don't save.

I'm not sure I'm aware of any couples who save almost £500 a month (unless they are due to go on holiday in a couple of months). The vast majority of people I know seem to spend the vast majority of what they earn just prior to payday. I do know some (paid weekly) who generally don't have enough to last them the week.

But that is down to their own avarice & budgeting - it isn't to say it is impossible, it just isn't done now.

We appeared to undergo a culture shift in the 80's, from prudence, to spending & lavishness. The late 90's onwards saw that move from spending, to overspending - the expansion of the availability of credit, equity release. At the start of the 80's, there were 2 credit cards. Now there are 2000, & we haven't included store cards, debit cards & the like.

The 90's became the "buy-it-now" generation, gotta have it, whatever the cost, NOW! Personally all the consumer borrowing which went on was nowhere near matched in wage increases, & was a major contributor to why the crunch happened, but that is for another thread. Point is, everyone got used to spending & borrowing & living for the now. Saving, planning & budgeting went out the window.

In theory it is possible. In practise, because of human nature (the way it currently is), it is unlikely.

An aside. I know someone who has, for 5 years, had 2 jobs (1 is only part time), though has also had a couple of employment gaps. Income has fluctuated, best paid job was £25k. He is over 30. Has savings of around £200k. Is waiting to buy the right place outright - no mortgage. I know him, he exists, & believe me he is very frugal in many respects. But he's not the norm.

Really2

lemonjelly wrote: »

I But he's not the norm.

I am not surprised, with £200K in the bank I should imagine he has lots of friends.

Emy1501

lemonjelly wrote: »

Interesting debate.

I think the main reason why there is unaffordability has been made already in the thread - ie people don't save.

I'm not sure I'm aware of any couples who save almost £500 a month (unless they are due to go on holiday in a couple of months). The vast majority of people I know seem to spend the vast majority of what they earn just prior to payday. I do know some (paid weekly) who generally don't have enough to last them the week.

But that is down to their own avarice & budgeting - it isn't to say it is impossible, it just isn't done now.

We appeared to undergo a culture shift in the 80's, from prudence, to spending & lavishness. The late 90's onwards saw that move from spending, to overspending - the expansion of the availability of credit, equity release. At the start of the 80's, there were 2 credit cards. Now there are 2000, & we haven't included store cards, debit cards & the like.

The 90's became the "buy-it-now" generation, gotta have it, whatever the cost, NOW! Personally all the consumer borrowing which went on was nowhere near matched in wage increases, & was a major contributor to why the crunch happened, but that is for another thread. Point is, everyone got used to spending & borrowing & living for the now. Saving, planning & budgeting went out the window.

In theory it is possible. In practise, because of human nature (the way it currently is), it is unlikely.

An aside. I know someone who has, for 5 years, had 2 jobs (1 is only part time), though has also had a couple of employment gaps. Income has fluctuated, best paid job was £25k. He is over 30. Has savings of around £200k. Is waiting to buy the right place outright - no mortgage. I know him, he exists, & believe me he is very frugal in many respects. But he's not the norm.

The above is mainly how I see it. I know people who would write cheques a few days before pay day as they were up to their overdraft limit. Most I know had a reasonable overdraft limit of at least 1K and a few grand on Credit cards.

I was reading the other day about the luxury pawnbroking market one company was saying that they had a few premiership players who would pawn expensive watches etc for a few days until they got paid because they had run out of money and would need money for a night out etc.

lemonjelly

Really2 wrote: »

I am not surprised, with £200K in the bank I should imagine he has lots of friends.

He doesn't broadcast it - which is why he has been able to save that amount & then hold on to it

Batchy

Really2 wrote: »

We also have a massive amount of professional people living in city's requiring no car?
But then they have to have 2 in graham's world because that is the only way they can fit his VI.

We have 2 cars (we dont live in a city, semi rural) Diesel is around £140 PM for the Two tax is £120 PA each Insurance is around £300 PA each other costs average about £100 PA (max)

So that makes £2620 PA

Clevers allowing for over £3,000K PA for 1 car.!!!!!!!!!!!

So your going to magic a car out of fresh air? No depreciation?