MSE News: OFT delivers 'flaccid' report on future of bank charges

confused90

ILW wrote: »

Not sure what you are getting at.

When you are presented with a contract, do you read it before signing or not?

If it is too complicated or long, do you sign it anyway?

Again, anybody who signs a contarct without reading it is either an idiot , or needs educating in how to deal with money.

PS. this is not a personal insult to yourself, but more a comment on the general attitude of "who bothers to read the small print",. If more people did and refused to sign then the whole system would improve no end.

what i am getting at is that i don't think the majority of people read their banking agreement in full.

i also don't believe for one second based on your comments here that you have read and understood your banking agreement.

i'm further getting at the fact that even if one were to read his banking agreement in full it would not fully explain the process and level of charges one could expect to incur for unarranged borrowing as to do so would require the reader to read further seperate documents.

further still i am "getting at" the fact that even if one did read not only his banking agreement but all of the seperate leaflets required to gain the full picture of how bank charging works at the time of opening his account it is still reasonable that after five, ten or more years of running his account flawlessly he might forget what exactly he had read at the time he opened his account and be rightly suprised and bemused at the level of charges incured for going a few pence over his overdraft.

Still further, i am "getting at" the fact that it is therefore a ridicoulous and grotesquely arrogant and pompus generalisation which you make in branding anyone who might have incured a bank charge as "stupid"

hope that clears that up for you ....;)

Oeillade

If the banks are going to charge us for personal banking, are they going to pay us to use our money or just a pathetic rate of interest?

natweststaffmember

Real_!!!!!!? wrote: »

BORING - If all the idiots complaining didn't go overdrawn and use OTHER PEOPLES MONEY without authority, they wouldn't get charged!!!!

.....but they are being charged for using that money ie the banks' with their authority since they are authorising this. You cannot use someone else's money without their consent otherwise that is called theft. So far there is only 1 case of any prosecution for theft from a bank based on them using their own account and that was over 30 years ago. Instead the banks fine someone for considering the request without any court case. With respect, your comments are very BORING and quite frankly nonsensical. Would you care to defend you seemingly ridiculous viewpoint?

natweststaffmember

ILW wrote: »

Not sure what you are getting at.

When you are presented with a contract, do you read it before signing or not?

If it is too complicated or long, do you sign it anyway?

Again, anybody who signs a contarct without reading it is either an idiot , or needs educating in how to deal with money.

PS. this is not a personal insult to yourself, but more a comment on the general attitude of "who bothers to read the small print",. If more people did and refused to sign then the whole system would improve no end.

"4.4 Evidence of a lack of awareness of charges was obtained from a
consumer survey conducted by the OFT. This found that:
• of all consumers, 67 per cent said that they did not know what their
bank charged for entering an unarranged overdraft
• over a fifth of consumers who had been charged in the last twelve
months did not know about UOCs before they incurred one, and
• of those consumers that had been charged in the past twelve
months, 25 per cent did not know what their bank charges were"

Page 35 from the report. Have you read the report btw?

ILW

confused90 wrote: »

what i am getting at is that i don't think the majority of people read their banking agreement in full.

i also don't believe for one second based on your comments here that you have read and understood your banking agreement.

i'm further getting at the fact that even if one were to read his banking agreement in full it would not fully explain the process and level of charges one could expect to incur for unarranged borrowing as to do so would require the reader to read further seperate documents.

further still i am "getting at" the fact that even if one did read not only his banking agreement but all of the seperate leaflets required to gain the full picture of how bank charging works at the time of opening his account it is still reasonable that after five, ten or more years of running his account flawlessly he might forget what exactly he had read at the time he opened his account and be rightly suprised and bemused at the level of charges incured for going a few pence over his overdraft.

Still further, i am "getting at" the fact that it is therefore a ridicoulous and grotesquely arrogant and pompus generalisation which you make in branding anyone who might have incured a bank charge as "stupid"

hope that clears that up for you ....;)

You do seem to be taking this rather personally.

My original comments were to suggest that a better level of financial education in this country could only be a good thing.

I have never said that anyone that gets bank charges is an idiot, I do infact get them myself from time to time, but I do know why and what they are for.

I personally do not have a problem with understanding the tariff of charges which the bank sends me every time there is a change, but if I did have I would seek advice.

I believe that using a few basic rules can save a whole lot of future grief such as:

Never sign anything without reading it first.

Never enter into a contract you do not understand.

Never buy anything from someone who tells you they need an instant decision. (eg home improvements, financial services, timeshare etc)

Always check what else is available.

Always ask yourself why someone requires you to sign a document.

Never eat the yellow snow.

If you think I am wrong with any of these points, I truly cannot understand why.

ashyou

Everything that has happened recently regarding bank charges is extremely frustrating and unfair. The official bodies seem to be doing nothing to support the consumer and have given the banks a new confidence that shines whenever I or my friends attempt to enter into a dialogue with them regarding the charges the make.

Even complaining is a long and drawn out process.

I say we should get together and stage a protest such as everyone withdrawing their money all at the same time on a specific day. Obviously this would pose security issues for most so the best method would be to walk into the branch and ask for a draft check to be issued in your name.

What say everyone?

ILW

ashyou wrote: »

Everything that has happened recently regarding bank charges is extremely frustrating and unfair. The official bodies seem to be doing nothing to support the consumer and have given the banks a new confidence that shines whenever I or my friends attempt to enter into a dialogue with them regarding the charges the make.

Even complaining is a long and drawn out process.

I say we should get together and stage a protest such as everyone withdrawing their money all at the same time on a specific day. Obviously this would pose security issues for most so the best method would be to walk into the branch and ask for a draft check to be issued in your name.

What say everyone?

Think that will only work if you are in credit, and I would guess that the majority who are getting hit with charges are not.

confused90

ILW wrote: »

You do seem to be taking this rather personally.

My original comments were to suggest that a better level of financial education in this country could only be a good thing.

I have never said that anyone that gets bank charges is an idiot, I do infact get them myself from time to time, but I do know why and what they are for.

I personally do not have a problem with understanding the tariff of charges which the bank sends me every time there is a change, but if I did have I would seek advice.

I believe that using a few basic rules can save a whole lot of future grief such as:

Never sign anything without reading it first.

Never enter into a contract you do not understand.

Never buy anything from someone who tells you they need an instant decision. (eg home improvements, financial services, timeshare etc)

Always check what else is available.

Always ask yourself why someone requires you to sign a document.

Never eat the yellow snow.

If you think I am wrong with any of these points, I truly cannot understand why.

i'm not taking it personally actually i just dislike arrogant pompus people who think they are being clever by posting very generalistic comments in a derogatory manner without first having even the forsight to think, before i critise others have i made sure i have done what i am Criticising these people for not doing.

in this case that would be reading and understanding the whole of your banking agreement, that is what you criticise people for not doing in previous posts and i think it clear from what you have said so far that you haven't read and understood all of your agreement either, and that = one self rightious, arrogant, pompus idiot in my book.


and thats all i have to say on the matter, it's clear we will never agree but the amount of contradictions in your posts should suffice for others to make up their own minds.

mackers8923

Quite simply there is not an honest finance organisation left in this country where is Robin Hood when you need him?

Even monumental c*ck ups like what the banks did to this country don't warrant any action, they are already creaming back their bonus style culture already so nothing has changed for joe bloggs on the street.

Oh what next we wonder, I'd expect probably 20% VAT and a few more pennies at the pump but what will we select few do? The funny part is even a change in government won't do anything we are all well and truely stuffed by this culture of take from the poor and give to the rich!

As for the charges, just do what I do folks, no DDs and no SOs pay it all manually, the beggers will try and catch you out all the time.....at least this way they can't get you.

davidgmmafan

"Never enter into a contract you do not understand"

If this were adopted it means many thousands of people would not have gas or electricity, and people with learning difficulties low intelligence etc would not have access to other basic utilites.

Also I would add that companies deliberately hide stuff, and DON'T design contracts in easy to understand langauge. That is why the Plain English Campaign exists.

Bank charges are a particularly bad example of this. Ignoring the amount which has increased basically from them copying each other (that's not the sort of competition we're aiming for) one of the banks basic premises when they defend charges is false. I saw this mentioned elsewhere in a letter sent from Nationwide

'It is the way the account is operated that governs what charges are incurred.'

This argument works for the initial charge but not the spiral which can and does occur afterwards (what if you don't have the £30 etc). I do not believe they should be allowed to appoint themselves priority creditor.

It does not cay it clearly in the terms and conditions, nor does it say by way of example one simple mistake could cost you several thousand pounds. Yet that is what has occured to many people.

Just try to imagine people in other circumstances, hell do some voluntary work and you might find it eye opening. I never understood the phrase there but for the grace of god go I untill I worked for the CAB for free.