Northern Rail possible fare evasion prosecution

powerhorse

Hello! I've been searching through as far as I can and read a few threads of people in similar situations but couldn't find anything out how things ended. So I'm basically hoping someone might be able to tell me what to expect.

I boarded a train for Manchester Piccadilly from a station a few miles out on friday. It was just before 1pm and the ticket office was shuttered. Closed. On the 7 or 8 minute journey, no guard or inspector was anywhere to be seen. Upon arrival at Piccadilly I headed straight for the ticket sellers and queued up. When it was my turn, my card wasn't being accepted by the machine and I was sent off to withdraw cash. Here begins my ordeal!

I had only £5 in the account - not enough to withdraw and only £1.25 in cash (65p short). When I went back I was told they didn't accept Visa Electron anyway and i was shunted off to a Revenue Protection Officer who gave me a formal caution, read me my rights etc and made me sign a form, give address info, DOB etc under a heavy implied threat of arrest and prosecution.

I left the station and borrowed some money off a friend 0 then returned, found the RPO and offered to pay the fare in cash there & then. He refused. He said he had written on the next page of his book and he was obliged to report me for prosecution. I could buy a ticket if I liked but it might not a difference. I bought one anyway.

When I got home, I phoned Northern customer services and the guy there said he couldn't say anything as nothing was yet filed, which is fair enough. He said they couldn't give a ballpark estimate of fines, but the standard would be 3 months jail and.or £1000 fine.

This has left me a bit shaken - and verbose - to be honest! I guess, to the letter of the law, I am a criminal but I had no idea they wouldn't accept Visa Electron. And no, i didn;t check beforehand as I wrongly assumed since I use it everywhere without fuss, it would be ok.

I'm not looking to be chastised for being stupid enough to assume they'd accept my card, just wondering what lies in store for me. It was perhaps stupid mistake but an honest one. I made no attempt to dodge any fare.

Am I screwed here? I know jail time seems a bit far fetched, but after reading a few stories about Northern Rail, it's not as ridiculous as it once seemed.

Oh - and one more thing - since I had my rights read to me and received an "official caution". Does this mean I now have a record of some kind. i.e. enough to show up on a CRB check, say?

Apologies for the long post and TIA for any help!

catflea

As someone who uses the railway every day at the moment, I have no sympathy for fare dodgers.

OK, so the ticket office was shut, was there a ticket machine on the platform, or a permit to travel machine? If so you should have used these. Failing that you should have gone straight to the guard on the train and asked him to sell you a ticket (you would have been able to spot him hanging out of the train when it was at the station, so "nowhere to be seen" is not really valid)

As far as I'm aware though, it really is rare for maximum penalties to be imposed and you DID buy a ticket (albeit to late) so theres likely to be some mitigation there.

powerhorse

catflea wrote: »

As someone who uses the railway every day at the moment, I have no sympathy for fare dodgers.

Fine. I didn't ask for sympathy. I made a mistake and want to know what lies in store.

OK, so the ticket office was shut, was there a ticket machine on the platform, or a permit to travel machine?

No.

If so you should have used these. Failing that you should have gone straight to the guard on the train and asked him to sell you a ticket (you would have been able to spot him hanging out of the train when it was at the station, so "nowhere to be seen" is not really valid)

I've purchased tickets off the train countless times, as have no doubt many other people when the guard wasn't present. However, had I made a point of walking up to the driver cab and getting hold of the guard, I would still be in the same situation. It wouldn't have occurred to me to stop him on the platform and try my card there as I had no idea it wouldn;t be accepted. I would've been caught out in-transit and just as screwed.

Nowhere to be seen is pefectly valid. He wasn't. He may well have been around somewhere but attempting to buy a ticket at the first visible opportunity seemed an acceptable course of action - if not the most over-eager.

As far as I'm aware though, it really is rare for maximum penalties to be imposed and you DID buy a ticket (albeit to late) so theres likely to be some mitigation there.

Well I can only hope.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

You won't go to jail, and you won't pay a £1000 fine.

You should write down everything, now, so you don't forget what happened. I have every sympathy with you, the train from my town into Manchester often has no staff at the station, there are no machines, and sometimes the guard does not get to you in time.

I would also consider asking the train station for a copy of the CCTV footage showing you attempting to pay. It'll cost you a tenner but its pretty hard then for anyone to argue that you had no intention of paying for a ticket.

BTW I've not been in your situation before, and don't particularly have much experience in this regard, so the above is my opinion only.

dzug1

The problem from your point of view is that you boarded the train without means to pay and that makes it more difficult to argue that you did intend to pay. (If the ticket office had been open how would you have paid??)

I would guess the two possibilities are they will drop the matter or that you'll get a small fine. Nothing like the maximum.

powerhorse

dzug1 wrote: »

The problem from your point of view is that you boarded the train without means to pay and that makes it more difficult to argue that you did intend to pay. (If the ticket office had been open how would you have paid??)

I would guess the two possibilities are they will drop the matter or that you'll get a small fine. Nothing like the maximum.

If the ticket office had been open I would've tried my card there, failed, and gone back to find more money and grumble no doubt!

I've relaxed a bit now. I got a bit worked up after speaking to CS and reading stories. I know I technically boarded the train without means to pay, however at the time I thought I had means to pay with my card.

From now on, there's no way in hell I'm boarding anything without checking exactly what payment methods are available and the co-op can go to hell with their "it's accepted anywhere that accepts Visa".

catflea

Powerhorse, just FYI when I went to the station this morning I checked what the train company in question takes card wise (South West Trains) definatly take Visa Electron - hope that helps a little.

robt_2

catflea wrote: »

Powerhorse, just FYI when I went to the station this morning I checked what the train company in question takes card wise (South West Trains) definatly take Visa Electron - hope that helps a little.

How did you come to think that South West Trains was the train company in question?! The post is about Northern and Manchester, both of which are mentioned in the original post

catflea

Aaah, I didn't make myself clear! I meant the train company in question being the one that runs the station I travel from......

robt_2

catflea wrote: »

Aaah, I didn't make myself clear! I meant the train company in question being the one that runs the station I travel from......

It makes more sense now :D

powerhorse

catflea wrote: »

Powerhorse, just FYI when I went to the station this morning I checked what the train company in question takes card wise (South West Trains) definatly take Visa Electron - hope that helps a little.

Thanks. That might come in handy if they want to claim it's common knowledge that my card is useless.