Child Tax Credit overpayment question

donny909

Just thought to ask on this. Was contacted about 2 years ago originally over what was claimed to be an overpayment of CTC of about £1350. It covers a period where the department claimed they were not informed I had moved in with my partner. Yet we had informed every other benefits department so there was no reason to have it claimed we had NOT informed them of my moving in with my partner as much as they had not updated there records.

The result is that they tried to claim the overpayment back. Heard nothing for near 18 months then a few months ago court papers to say pay in 7 days or a summons etc. Got that stopped while appealing yet again. We could provide no new evidence that they pretty much said is all they would look at. Yet ignored each and every point that we raised and asked in the second appeal. To then be told about being contacted in the nest 14 days or so with the process of going to court etc as they could not retreave the "overpayment" due to the applicable benefit CTC having come to an end. Funny that as there has not been any period in which we have NOT been in receipt of CTC to memory.

Not heard a thing in a couple of month. Now can we use what they have told us to refute the overpayment by saying they are making major erors in there records by saying we dont get CTC when we do as a point to say we did inform them of my moving in with the partner and to use it as a basis of there poor record keeping and not us failing to inform then of a change when I moved in?.

Plus if there records were corrected then we would have still be entitled to the CTC anyways as a couple and the amount would have been pretty much the same. they said so on the phone 1 time. But refused to explain the diference in policy that only allows us to claim an overpayment backdating of 6 months yet at the same time they can claim back upto 6 years. If we would have been entitled to the CTC for that period any way is it not pointless in them asking for it back rather than correcting there own records?.

I mean there is well documented cases to prove they are constantly at error whilst blaming joe public for not informing them of changes in circumstances?.

Tehya

Hello, from reading your post it does seem mistakes were made on your claim.

It may be beneficial for you to join the Tax Credit Casualties website
( http://www.taxcc.org/ )
the knowledge and help available on the forums is really good and there's some really useful info on the main site.

Good luck with everything, we had a letter saying they'd overpaid us because my husband had been on sick pay for six months but nowhere in the literature (apart from a tiny mention in the deep, dark depths of the HMRC website) did it mention sick leave and having to tell them about it as a change of circumstances. So we appealed it and won. It was only about £250 but it was the principle and it shows you can win.

Tehya

karenx

When you informed them of your partner moving in did you close your single claim and then apply again as a couple? As thats what should of happened. You cant just add him onto your claim. You would of had to close it down and apply again with the forms for both of you

donny909

It was based on a period soon after the baby was born. It's easy to say and know now through experience that 1 claim should be closed and a new 1 opened. But with no prior children there was never a claim of CTC previously to know we did have to close 1 claim and open a new 1. All we was aware of is that we had to inform all benefits departments of a change of circumstances when moving in with my partner and daughter.

It feels like we were expected to know what we were expected to do when we never knew or were told beyond being told who we had to inform. It's not like there is any fault our end if we never received information back to say we had to close 1 claim and open a new 1?. If we were never given the information of having to claim CTC afresh then how can we be at fault. Like I said it's obvious now we are going through all this but for first time claiments, how are they expected to know all this unless it's been explained before hand?.

Anyways like I said heard noting for about 14 months the first time, now nothing for over 2 months. Can they behave like this leaving long periods between threatening to goto court, doing nothing then threatening to goto court again and still doing nothing. Don't they have so long to go to court after claiming they will do or drop the issue rather than keep claiming they will goto court for the next 3 1/2 years untill there 6 year period is up?.

karenx

They wont give up no. Best to call them and arrange a payment plan for paying it back.

kaylzbob

The adviser that you spoke to at the time should have explained to you that you needed to put in a new claim, phone them and ask for the address to write to for a copy of the call, they will send you out a CD with the call on it and you can listen back to it. If the adviser at the time told you that you had to reapply then they will take that as your negligence and disregard any appeal, if the adviser told you something different then you may have a chance.

The argument they have is that with every award notice they send out a checklist with all the things you have to tell them and one of those things is moving in with a partner.

The only other thing you can do is try and get proof that you called them when your partner moved in (usually from a phone bill) and they can trace the call to find out what was said then.

donny909

Thanks for the respone on this I can see there is little we can do. Except in there defence it cos the system says we never informed them. And if we say me made a call to them but they have no record (cos we never had a phone line at that time) then they are going to be thought of as right reguardless of the facts and millions of cases coming to light over the years where they were at fault but wont admit to being so.

But the problem is if the rule alowed us to backdate an underpayment at the couple rate to the same 6 year period they can with an overpayment then this would'nt be happening now.

Anyone know if the 6 month (or is it only 3 month) rule that applies to us for underpayments backdating and the 6 year rule that applies to them for overpayments is actual law or policy?. As the way I see it they cant or wont explain why underpayment and overpayment has at least 5 1/2 years difference in there fovour. We even pointed out to them that by the time they informed us and asked for an overpayment back we were beyond the period (just beyond I might add) where we could claim the underpayment at the couple rate back. We appealed that point twice and twice they have refused\ignored that point.

Sorry if what I feel we want to do goes against advice but both me and the partner would prefer to take our chances in court than give in to an unjust system that we may well sooner get a court to ask the questions that they refuse to answer and ignore when we ask in the hope that we can challenge the 6 (or 3) month rules for us and the 6 year rule for them.

kaylzbob

It's a 3 month rule for backdating and it is actually law, the only way around it is if you can prove you were mis-advised by a tax credits adviser. The reson for this is that TC is a credit that you have to apply for and not a benefit that you are automatically entitled to.

The overpayment rule is because the money used to pay tax credits comes from the public purse and if someone has not been entitled to some of the money they have received then they have to pay it back. Again, the only way around this is if you can prove you have been mis-advised.

I think the best thing you can do is to call the helpline, get a list of the calls you made and request recordings of them, this would certainly help any appeal you would have as every call is logged onto the TC system under your national insurance number, that way you can prove if you have been mis-advised.

System

From what you have said it sounds as if this is your overpayment rather that yours and your partners and it's due to you receiving tax credits as a single person when you weren't single but actually part of a couple.

If this is the case then once TCO found out you were a couple they were legally obliged to end the single claim as of the date you moved in together and get you 2 to apply as a couple. TCO are not connected to the other benefit agencies directly that's why the award notices sent out have the TCO helpline number on the front and also why they ask you to keep them informed of every change of circumstance via that helpline number.

Once the single claim was terminated and payments overpaid calculated it was impossible for TCO to recover the overpayment other than by asking for it directly from you. The TCO system does not allow overpayments from a terminated claim to be recovered via deductions from a new claim.

If you think you did call them and inform them of the change as soon as it happened then you can, as kazylbob said, make a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act and ask specifically for a copy all the telephone calls you made and then ask for a new review of your dispute.

jay1jay

Donny909

This is really important. Phone the tax credit helpline as soon as you can on 0845 300 3900. They are open 8 til 8 Mon to Sun. Tell them you want them to apply notional entitlement relief. As long as you meet the criteris, your overpayment should be greatly reduced.

The criteria is:

There was a delay of more than 93 days in telling tax credits about your partner living with you.

You then claimed as a couple

You ended up with an overpayment on your single claim.

(This also works the other way round, when you forget to tell them a partner has left)

The rules on notional entitltment changed in January. The head office will work out how much you would have got if you had correctly claimed with your partner and they will deduct this from your overpayment. If, as you suspect, you would have been entitled to the same amount as you received, the whole overpayment will be written off. If not, at least your overpayment should reduce.

Hope that helps.

JJ

SuziQ

Once you told them of your change in cirumstances,did your payments change? If not then that would have been the trigger for you to check with them what was going on. I think that is the reason they won't back down.