Notice from Landlady to move out

tbs624

Is this property in Eng/Wales? If in Scotland , there is no requirement for the deposit to be registered

Is your rent less than £25k per annum ? ( If over that fig, cannot be a let under an AST and again, no requirement for deposit to be registered.)

Does your contract confirm that it is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, and does it make any reference at all to Term, eg " a Fixed Term of xx months", despite no expiry date being given?

Do you share any part of this property with the LL?

Mongy

tbs624 wrote: »

Is this property in Eng/Wales? If in Scotland , there is no requirement for the deposit to be registered

Is your rent less than £25k per annum ? ( If over that fig, cannot be a let under an AST and again, no requirement for deposit to be registered.)

Does your contract confirm that it is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, and does it make any reference at all to Term, eg " a Fixed Term of xx months", despite no expiry date being given?

Do you share any part of this property with the LL?

Property is in England and rent is less than £25k per annum.

The exact wording for sections 2 and 4 on the tenancy agreement is:

2. The tenancy shall be from and including 7/10/09 ("the Commencement Date") to and including and then there is a gap here where no date has been entered ("the Expiration Date"), "the Term."

4. This Agreement is intended to create an Assured Shorthold Tenancy as defined by Section 19A of the Housing Act 1988 as amended and shall take effect subject to the provisions for recovery of possession provided for by virtue of Section 21 of that Act.

The title at the top of the agreement also states ASSURED SHORTHOLD TENANCY AGREEMENT

Please also be aware as I mentioned in my original post that I didnt actually move into the flat until the 16th October 2009 and I pay the rent on the 16th of each month, even though the actual contract states the 7th October.

Fire_Fox

IMO your contract still a fixed term AST even if there is no date, because six months is the minimum time for a rental of this type. The contract starts from the 7th but your tenancy starts from the date you took occupation (16th), at least that is my understanding from reading other threads. I think your rent period would then be 16th to 15th so notice should coincide with that ... but if the more experienced regulars think otherwise, I am happy to concede!! Would be quite amusing if your landlord has to serves notice and it is wrong yet again ...

<sebb>

IMO it's great that you are reading up on your rights and you are perfectly within your rights to use the law to your advantage, but this thread makes me a little bit uncomfortable. Yes your landlord is in the wrong for not checking her responsibilities as a landlord, but do you really need to take advantage of that? Cant you just call her and ask her why she needs the flat back. Tell her why it's important for you to stay. You never know, you might just be able to come to a mutual agreement that suits you both. Perhaps after this is all settled you can let her know that she needs to take a bit more care when letting, and hopefully she'll become a better landlord in the future.

Fire_Fox

By not bothering to research even her basic responsibilitities it could be argued the landlord has taken advantage of her tenants. Giving just one months notice by telephone is not only a huge error, it demonstrates an incredibly casual and wholly unprofessional approach to someone's home life. On top of that it seems likely the deposit has not been safeguarded: regardless of the law if she goes broke the tenants lose out, oh and the room wasn't ready for a week.

<sebb>

Fire_Fox wrote: »

By not bothering to research even her basic responsibilitities it could be argued the landlord has taken advantage of her tenants. Giving just one months notice by telephone is not only a huge error, it demonstrates an incredibly casual and wholly unprofessional approach to someone's home life. On top of that it seems likely the deposit has not been safeguarded: regardless of the law if she goes broke the tenants lose out, oh and the room wasn't ready for a week.

Dont get me wrong, I completely agree with you. There are far too many unscrupulous landlords out there, and just as many tenants willing to screw people over. Of course a landlord should do their basic research and respect their tenants rights. But all I'm saying is that people dont always have to rely on the letter of the law. Sometimes an experience like this is all it takes to make a landlord/tenant realise the errors of their ways and then in future act in accordance with the law.

It's most certainly not the tenants job to educate the landlord, but what harm can a civil conversation do? In a lot of situations it can end up with a mutually beneficial situation without the need to involve the courts and the side effect is the next tenants dont need to deal with the same crappy situation.

franklee

<sebb> wrote: »

Dont get me wrong, I completely agree with you. There are far too many unscrupulous landlords out there, and just as many tenants willing to screw people over. Of course a landlord should do their basic research and respect their tenants rights. But all I'm saying is that people dont always have to rely on the letter of the law. Sometimes an experience like this is all it takes to make a landlord/tenant realise the errors of their ways and then in future act in accordance with the law.

It's most certainly not the tenants job to educate the landlord, but what harm can a civil conversation do? In a lot of situations it can end up with a mutually beneficial situation without the need to involve the courts and the side effect is the next tenants dont need to deal with the same crappy situation.

I get puzzled when this point is made when all the OP has done is ask about their rights. To my mind the first step is know your rights, the second and independent step is what do do about them. I do not see that knowing your rights excludes a calm and civilised negotiation with the rights as a framework to base that on. Then it's only if an agreement cannot be reached (and written down) that suits both sides that the letter of the law kicks in.

However let's be clear, asking someone who is not at fault to leave their home is a big deal and should be taken seriously. Recently on this forum we've had tenants asked to move at a time when they are due in hospital, under treatment for cancer, due to give birth, sitting their final exams, due to be moving again in a couple more months anyway, short of the cash to move etc. and where none of these tenants were at fault. Of course they should ask what their rights are and really expecting the law to be followed is entirely reasonable after all the landlord is supposed to be the professional.

tbs624

Mongy - the Notice Requiring Possession (s21) absolutely has to be given in writing, this was an amendment to the Housing Act 1988, afforded by the Housing Act1996. There is no specific form that it has to take but it must be dated correctly.

In your situation, I would first check for myself whether the deposit has been registered, by contacting each of the 3 schemes ( DPS, mydeposits, TDS) rather than alerting the LL to her potential error at too early a stage.

Note Teeni's comments in post number 31.

Your flatmate's S21 should be timed in accordance with his/her own Tenancy agreement terms

<sebb> - LLs have a duty to familiarise themselves with the laws applying to property rental. If they can't do that then they quite simply should not let property at all. I have very limited sympathy for amateur LLs who don't safeguard both themselves and their tenants by doing things properly from the start.Learning how to give effective Notice should come pretty high up on any novice LLs list.

They can join a national LL association (or a local affiliate), or Tessa Shepperson's LL Law, setting the fees against rental income for tax purposes and getting a discount on their LL insurances at the same time as having access to all manner of useful info and updates

tbs624

Alex_LS wrote: »

...She is legally obliged to inform you of how the deposit is protected. If it is not protected, or if she has not informed you, she cannot issue a S21 notice and is liable for the fine as mentioned above...

It's not a "fine" - it's a "penalty" under civil law.

PasturesNew

Mongy wrote: »

My landlady rang last night to say she was giving a months notice for me (and my flatmate) to move out.

She can't do that. It is two months, from a rent date. It has to be in writing, in the form of a Section 21. Your leaving date cannot be before the end of your first six months.

Mongy wrote: »

We are both on different contracts as moved in at different times.

She has to do it separately then, based on your individual dates.

Mongy wrote: »

My contract says the comencement date was 7/10/09 but there is no actual expiration date written on the contract.

Your earliest leaving date (if she'd issued proper notice on the right date) would be 6th April 2010.

If she issues you with a proper Section 21 notice tomorrow (12th March) then this would take effect next rent date (7th April) and mean your earliest leaving date would be 6th June.

Mongy wrote: »

I actually moved into the flat and paid my first rent on 16/10/09 as there was a problem with the room before I moved it.

This might change things slightly, but what date's on any actual agreement? Taking the 16th as your start date then your moving out date would be a 15th... so if she can get you a Section 21 before the 16th March your moving out date would be 15th May.

Mongy wrote: »

From googling and the previous thread i found on MSE it appears that I would need written notice of eviction giving at least 2 full rental periods.

Yes.

Mongy wrote: »

Because I have not been at my flat six months would the notice period start from the day before the six month date (ie 6th April) therefore meaning I have until 6th June to move out?

She can issue the notice at any time within the six months, if she'd issued it on your 2nd day there, it could have been advising you to move out six months later. Once the 4th month date has been missed she can't then issue less than two months. It's always two months.

Mongy wrote: »

Is this still the case even though my contract does not have an expiration date written on it? is it just assumed that the inital contract period is 6 months, or would the case be because there is no expiration date that notice period would start from now even though it is only 5 months (therefore giving me till 6th May) ?

Minimum in law that she can ask you to move out is six months, even if you'd had a contract dated for a shorter period.

Mongy wrote: »

Because I didnt actually move into the flat until the 16th October and all my rent payments have been made on 16th of each month would I have until the 15th of May or June to move out, even though the contract states the 7th of each month?

I don't know, I just make this stuff up

Mongy wrote: »

Also I am worried that if I were to stay in my flat longer the LL would think that I am being awkward and be less forthcoming with returning my deposit (£500). I am worried that an inventory was not done properly. I did not do one when I moved in, nor did my flatmate who moved in 11 months prior to me. One was apparantly done by the person who he originally lived with. No damage has been done to the flat but could this be a problem if the landlady saw me as being awkward by not moving within a month and therefore withhold my deposit just citing damage to the flat or someother excuse?

She could be awkward and see you as being awkward. The inventory could cause you problems. It needs somebody that knows what they're talking about to answer this one ...