question about visa electron

mabski

how funny my bank is santander

jambosans

mabski wrote: »

You may well be right but whats the difference between a full visa and an electron then?

Visa Electron's and certain Visa Debit cards, are 'online' debit cards, which means they should seek authorisation.

mabski wrote: »

I thought electron cards needed authorisation which i thought was the whole idea of them .

Yes, you're correct, however no system is full proof, and certain transaction can slip through. As I said previously, a CPA (Continuous Payment Authority) is special type of authorisation which does not follow the same authorisation process as a one off debit card payment.

mabski wrote: »

If you are right how come they havent done it on previous months where there wasnt enough cash to cover it.

*shrugs* CPAs are a law unto themselves. If you read the linked articles, you will note that a CPA can go through on a cancelled card, so anything's possible.

You can play the "Visa Electrons shouldn't let me go overdrawn/ I've never had a charge before" card, but I doubt it will wash (it is Santander after all).

hippey

Yes, Electron will allow CPA to be processed unauthorised it's one of the oddities of the legacy system, it will even happen on the full auth debit cards.

The CPA operates offline and the retailer will just put in a batch file and depending on the arrangment with the aquirer all transactions under a certain value will be processed.

There are a few other situations where Electron cards will also allow you to spend more than you have, nothing is foolproof.

dzug1

Toe-Jam wrote: »

They refused to refund it, had to cancel the card so they recurring transaction couldn't happen again.

But it CAN happen again - if you haven't cancelled it with the originator then they can still put it through and the bank may pay it and pursue for the money.

Cancelling the card is not enough - transactions can be made on cancelled cards.

inmypocketnottheirs

This may be hindsight, but don't give continuous payment authority on any card, credit, debit, visa, mastercard etc. You have very little (if no) protection about reclaiming if amounts are taken incorrectly.

Incidentally, whilst searching around these very forums for alternatives to buying x box access as Microsoft prices I found this link:

http://electronicfirst.com/cheap-xbox-live-codes/12-month-gold-membership-subscription/

Not used it myself yet, but it is recommended by other users around here.

HTH

Toe-Jam

dzug1 wrote: »

But it CAN happen again - if you haven't cancelled it with the originator then they can still put it through and the bank may pay it and pursue for the money.

Cancelling the card is not enough - transactions can be made on cancelled cards.

If your card is lost or stolen all transactions are barred, And the company doesn't know the new card number, so hopefully it is enough.

Toe-Jam

mabski wrote: »

how funny my bank is santander

Its to do with their overdraft policy not the actual visa electron, They have this thing called instant overdraft service whereby if you informally request and overdraft using your card they can choose to pay it so the company asks for £5, santander goes ok, but now you owe us £35.

Instant Overdrafts
We will treat you as having asked for an Instant Overdraft if you request to make a payment which would cause your account to go overdrawn without an Advance Overdraft in place or cause your account to go over your existing Advance Overdraft limit. Different service fees and interest rates will apply. An Instant Overdraft Request Fee will be payable by you each time that you request an Instant Overdraft from us and regardless of whether we agree to give you the Instant Overdraft requested. Payment of the Instant Overdraft Request Fee may result in you becoming overdrawn (or, if you already have an overdraft, further overdrawn) even if we do not agree to give you the Instant Overdraft you asked for.
An Instant Overdraft Monthly Fee will be payable by you in respect of each month during which you have used an Instant Overdraft on your account. Interest will be payable by you at the Instant Overdraft Interest Rate on any money you borrow by way of an Instant Overdraft.


Bit of a con really.

jambosans

Toe-Jam wrote: »

If your card is lost or stolen all transactions are barred, And the company doesn't know the new card number, so hopefully it is enough.

Incorrect. As dzug1 has said, the type of authorisation made with a CPA allows transactions to still go through on a cancelled card. Have a read at the articles which I've link, they also confirm this.

dzug1

Toe-Jam wrote: »

If your card is lost or stolen all transactions are barred, And the company doesn't know the new card number, so hopefully it is enough.

No - all NEW transactions AFTER you have reported it lost or stolen are barred.

You authorised the company to take the money BEFORE it was lost or stolen and that authorisation is valid until you cancel it with them. They don't need to know your new number, the bank just link the old and new accounts.

Indeed arguably you have committed fraud by reporting a card lost or stolen that wasn't. I doubt if anyone would bother pursuing you for it though.

hippey

CPA processing should return L/S cards as referred, expired cards can be forced through on some systems by altering the expiry date to the current month. If a lost marker is placed on the card it may well still be processed if the CPA existed before the marker as it could be assumed to be valid.

As a rule Direct Debits are a much more consumer friendly system, CPA are a nightmare when they go out of control, often the only way of stopping them is closing the account completely and even then......!!!