LLA PCN Issued after 28 Days - Appeal Rejected

gtucker

Hi,

I was issued with a PCN by Newham Council which I appealed on the grounds that it was sent out after 29 Days - Information I got from:

(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply ocurred.

(3) Subsection (6) below applies where the following conditions are met.

(4) The first condition is that where a borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, has before the expiry of 14 days from—

(a) the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred; or

(b) the date of the cancellation of the penalty charge notice in the case where a penalty charge notice has been cancelled—

(i) under paragraph 2 of the said Schedule; or

(ii) in compliance with a direction given by a traffic adjudicator under paragraph 4(2) of the said Schedule; or

© the date on which the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, are served with notice under paragraph 7(8)(d) of the said Schedule where the penalty charge notice is deemed to have been cancelled under paragraph 7(8)©,
made a request to the Secretary of State for the supply of relevant particulars.

(5) The second condition is that those particulars have not been supplied to the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, before the date after which that council or body would not be entitled to serve a penalty charge notice or a fresh penalty charge notice by virtue of subsection (1) or (2) above.

(6) Where this subsection applies, the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, shall continue to be entitled to serve a penalty charge notice or a fresh penalty charge notice for a further period of 6 months beginning with the date mentioned in subsection (5) above.

They have sent me a reply saying they have rejected it on the grounds that as long as they request my details from the DVLA within 14 days of the offence they are within their rights to serve the PCN up to 6 months from the date of the offence. As I have no way of disproving when they requested this information I'm thinking that they're just trying it on and getting me to pay up so I'm looking for advice on what I should do next. I've got about a week left before the fine doubles to £120, which it will do if I appeal. I want to be sure that i'm right before I appeal as I don't really understand all the legal speak in the above link so i was hoping someone on here might.

I've tried to post the rejection letter that i received from them up on here but it won't let me post links.

EDIT - Saw some advice on putting a gap after the HTTP bit.

Page 1 - http:// i47.tinypic.com/2wmdj7l.jpg
Page 2 - http:// i49.tinypic.com/2ylryts.jpg
Page 3 - http:// i46.tinypic.com/255rqky.jpg

Any Help/Advice appreciated.

Thanks

Coblcris

They have omitted to conider the timing of the response from the DVLA.

gtucker

Coblcris wrote: »

They have omitted to conider the timing of the response from the DVLA.

Does that mean that I can appeal on that point? The way I read it is that if the DVLA give them the details then within 14 days of the offence then they have to have issued the ticket within 28 of the offence taking place?

Coblcris

Paragraph 5 above.

You can ask the DVLA when they recievd the council's request and when the DLA responded.
Who was tardy ? was anyone ?

gtucker

(5) The second condition is that those particulars have not been supplied to the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, before the date after which that council or body would not be entitled to serve a penalty charge notice or a fresh penalty charge notice by virtue of subsection (1) or (2) above.

so If i read that correctly, that means that they can issue the PCN after the 28 days only If the DVLA responded after the 28 days. The fact they issued the ticket to me 29 days after the offence suggests to me that they at least received the reply back either on day 28 or before. I can't see them being that efficient that they've issued the ticket on the same day they received the information.

Is this information something that the DVLA can openly supply to me over the phone? Any idea which department I'd need to speak to?

gtucker

Coblcris wrote: »

Who was tardy ? was anyone ?

Sorry, I don't understand what this part means.

Coblcris

They have omitted to consider the timing of the response from the DVLA.

The council has not commented on when the DVLA responded, that is their only out re the 28 day deadline. Hence my sugestion that you check with the DVLA, you should not rely on the council for 'clarity'.

Paranoid

gtucker wrote: »

Hi,

I was issued with a PCN by Newham Council which I appealed on the grounds that it was sent out after 29 Days - Information I got from:

By "Appeal" do you mean a representation to the council, which is the first step before an actual appeal through the independent appeals process?

This would be triggered by the councils' rejection of your representation.

The discounted penalty should be held until after the appeals process.

No chance of info from the DVLA by telephone, but you can make a 'Freedom of Information' request.

Doubt the council have made a blunder on this point, but study the documents and photos carefully. A majority of appeals are successful. Good luck.

peter_the_piper

Why is it that the ppc scammers can get instant info and it takes the council over 28 days.

Coupon-mad

Here are the direct links to the rejection letter:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2wmdj7l.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2ylryts.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/255rqky.jpg

However you haven't shown us scans of the PCN/NTO (all pages, front and back), nor the pictures they claim to have enclosed of your vehicle shown in contravention. There could be flaws in the PCN/NTO or the 'documentary evidence' they refer to.

Have you asked to see the video evidence of this moving traffic offence?

What about trying to Google for results containing keywords made up of the name of the street and 'PCN' - maybe that same spot has been mentioned before on a forum with info about reasons for appealing a PCN? The same street names do crop up quite regularly on motorists' fightback forums, where there's a sign that can be missed or misunderstood.

And while on the subject of the signage there, can you get a pic of it or zoom in on the sign on Google streetview. There could be flaws with the sign (was it a no right turn?).

There are more experts on pepipoo.com than on here so I would post all your scans there in a new thread, to see if any of them can find you an 'out':

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

HTH

Paranoid

peter_the_piper wrote: »

Why is it that the ppc scammers can get instant info and it takes the council over 28 days.

Surely it's when the information is requested?