Discuss the It's scary to find myself defending cash machines charges Blog

Tim_L

I think you're probably underestimating the influence of this site, Martin - it has had a major effect on the way promotional campaigns have operated, for example the Barclay's current account - and most major companies will scan all media for information on consumer trends. They will most certainly be reading your blogs.

I also don't accept that British Gas is any different from a bank in terms of what it should or should not be allowed to do: in fact they are virtually identical propositions. There is plenty of competition between utility companies, as there is between banks, but a good deal of customer inertia. In both utilities and banking the companies do tend to operate somewhat in concert, and of course both are pretty much essential to our lives. Banks are as much effective monopolies as are utility companies.

Utility companies are certainly profitable - which I have no problem with - but they are regulated and there are things they must do to satisfy the regulator which are not directly profitable. It's really special pleading to argue that one quasi-monopoly should be allowed to charge what they like for (for example) cash machines, while another should absorb the costs of (for example) wholesale gas price rises.

It's also stretching a point a little to say that the cash machines in remote locations are being provided by independant companies rather than the banks. This is true, but in many cases this is on the basis of an agreement with banks not to compete with them, or are a replacement of existing free facilities. The machines would be profitable anyway because the money from them tends to get spent in the establishment offering the cash, so an additional charge which is often a high proportion of the amount withdrawn really isn't necessary. But the point here is not whether the machines are bad per se, it is the idea that someone in a position of influence is unexpectedly coming out apparently in favour of charges. It's a PR gift at a very inopportune moment.

It's good to see this morning's announcement that RBoS will be placing free cash machines in remote locations. This demonstrates that there is commercial value - PR at least - in free cash machines.

Wyndham

Tim_L wrote:

It's good to see this morning's announcement that RBoS will be placing free cash machines in remote locations. This demonstrates that there is commercial value - PR at least - in free cash machines.

This is very interesting, especially as they are asking customers to nominate where they should be. I'm sure it is a PR stunt, but at least they are doing something about it. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for them to actually appear.

I also assume that these will be RBoS owned, not owned by convenience stores etc. Though I also noticed that they will be inside places because the security won't be as good, so won't necessarily be available 24 hours.

MSE_Martin

Thought you may find this an interesting press release from the NAtionwide, and in the case of Hanco - the bank is to blame...

NATIONWIDE WELCOMES RBS PLANS TO OPEN NEW FREE CASH MACHINES
And challenges RBS to convert 7,000 charging Hanco machines to make them free for consumers

Nationwide Building Society has welcomed today's announcement that Royal Bank of Scotland is to introduce 300 new free cash machines at locations in the UK where there are currently no free-to-use machines.Having campaigned to ensure consumers continue to be able to access their own money for free, Nationwide believes that any initiative by the financial services sector to increase the number of free cash machines is good news for the consumer.Nationwide executive director Stuart Bernau said: "Across the UK the number of charging machines is increasing much faster than the number of free machines so we welcome wholeheartedly the news that RBS is planning to install new free machines."While this is a great first step, we know RBS has also been increasing its network of charging cash machines - owned through its subsidiary Hanco. It would be a real boon to consumers if RBS would consider converting the 7,000 charging machines it owns to make them all free too."

MarkyMarkD

Frankly, I don't agree with Martin's view that there's any difference who the machines belong to.

If it's right for some ATMs to charge (and I personally believe that it is) then it doesn't matter one jot whether they belong to a bank, a subsidiary of a bank, a building society or some completely different company.

As long as the charging is clear in advance of the transaction, blah, blah, blah.

Nationwide's position on this is publicity-seeking rubbish. If they believed that there should be thousands more free ATMs, they could install them. Instead of which, they slag off any other company which installs them and then charges for their use.

heavilyindebt

When the Truck Acts (see quote below) were repealed in 1986, the government specifically pledged that employees would not incur extra costs as a result of not being paid in cash, the assumption being that bank accounts and withdrawing your money were free and would always remain so. Looks like we have been hoodwinked.

"1. The Wages Act, 1986, received royal assent in July this year,
and implementation of its provisions are to be phased in
between 1st August 1986 and 1st January, 1987. The purpose of
this report is to summarise the main provisions of the Act, and
to identify any implications for the County Council.

Repeal of the Truck Acts

2. The principal effect of the Act is to repeal the various Truck
Acts and the Wages Act, 1960, which gave the right to manual
workers (as defined by the Acts) to be paid in the "coin of the
realm". This means that, with effect from 1st January, 1987,
employers may include a provision in the contracts of
employment of all new employees that the payment of wages will
be by cheque or credit transfer."

MarkyMarkD

I think harking back to the Truck Acts' repeal is a bit unnecessary, even on a thread which has been revived after a year!

Most people spend most of their money in electronic means, either direct debit, standing order, bank transfer or debit/credit card payment.

A steadily decreasing proportion of transactions are undertaken using cash.

As previously posted, there are loads of ways to withdraw money free of charge. Apart from tens of thousands of free ATMs, there are bank and building society branches and over ten thousand post offices. And then after that there are thousands of shops which offer cashback.

People who use charging ATMs are, quite honestly, generally lazy or careless. If people wish to choose to use a charging ATM when they have a choice, why shouldn't they?

And why should employers incur the very significant costs of transporting cash around the country because a tiny fraction of their employees find the use of banks a bit inconvenient or expensive?

bublina

Hi guys
sorry its my first time but somehow i cant find the link where to write my post. anyway i want to ask if anyone knows of ATM machines locator as i had a weird transanction on my card, which my bank claimes to be me but they cant tell my where is the machine located i have withdrawn the money from. can anyone help me how to find out?thanks

MarkyMarkD

Hi bublina and welcome to MSE.

An ATM locator is available here: http://www.multimap.com/clients/places.cgi?client=link12546tyr

Strangely enough, googling "ATM locator" on www.google.co.uk with "pages from the UK" checked would have found you that in less time than posting on here.

A bit of work on your googling skills, maybe.

But I'm not sure an ATM locator is what you are really looking for. If you don't believe a transaction is yours, it's definitely your bank's responsibility to give you proper details on where the transaction was undertaken.