Power of Attorney advice

CBR

I am in a dilema and need some advice.

My father has decided to arrange for myself and brother to be power of attorney.

I experienced terrible problems 5 years ago when my mother was ill and there being no power of attorney.

My father and myself have been to see a lovely young solicitor twice now and sadly we are not getting anywhere. She has taken great trouble to explain everything to my father with regard to health issues and still he believes that his instructions are to be followed irrespective of any advice.

His instructions are the same as my mothers "at no stage in the future am I to be put in an old peoples home". I would have thought after all the years fighting to follow my mothers instructions he would have learnt something.

I have raised my concerns with regard to signing the forms but am unable to get any advice from the solicitor as quite rightly so I have not appointed her.

I am worried having signed the forms and attempting to follow my fathers instructions I will encounter all sorts of trouble as before.

Why are parents so afraid of paying for their care just so that their children have an inheritance. My goodness I would sign the property away today knowing what the fight was like to honour my mothers instructions.

Any words of advice would be appreciated.

Janey51

I have Enduring Power of Attorney for my Mum (thank God)
Not quite sure if I am understanding what you mean but the document I have says that I have the right to decide on my Mum's health care.
She is in a home now...she had/has no assets so that was not an issue.
The only reason I wanted POA was so I could access her bank accounts and pay her bills.
Is your Dad mentally infirm?
Does he really understand?
He may come to the point when he isn't capable of deciding his future.
My Mum hated me when I "put her in a home". She screamed and shouted and hated me.
It was awful but she has dementia and I could not care for her any more.

Now she loves it and is the happiest I have seen her for years.

Sorry, I haven't helped you much.
I think I am trying to say that there may come a point when your Dad just can't make decisions about his care and for his own safety and your sanity, he needs full time care.

CBR

Thank you for your reply.

Briefly, my parents were divorced and my mother also had dementia. My mother always instructed, in her own words, no old folks home on any account. Almost impossible to comply with. My father pushed and pushed for myself to comply with mothers wishes and stated quite clearly that she was to die where she was.

Therefore the ongoing battle commenced with social services who were paying at the time £110 per day for her being a NHS bed blocker.

I was completely torn between my parents instructions and those of the social services and what a relief when I received the message on my answer machine from the social worker to advise that my mother had died.

Ironically at 12.45 (the day mum died) I had yet another bed blocking meeting with social services and yet at 4.45 she passed away.

I had no enduring power of attorney so I feel I was protected as I was unable to touch her assets.

My father now expects me to do the same for himself and fight for him to die in hospital and seems to think it will be easier for me to carry out his wishes covered with legal documentation.

I personally am not so sure and really have my doubts. The last time I went to the solicitor with my father, the solicitor asked me to leave the room, so I am unsure of what was discussed.

I feel that by signing the documentation tommorrow I am really making a rod for my own back?

Cook_County

I will add my threepence.

EPAs cannot be drafted any more so the solicitor is drafting an LPA for your father - NOT for you or your benefit. The solicitor may (or may not) be drafting an LPA Property & Affairs plus an LPA Personal Welfare (ie both or just one). Your father can add any instructions he wants. His solicitor will advise if these are possible. The solicitor will have had to ask you to leave to ensure you were not instructing him or her as the solicitor needs to avoid later problems.

LPAs are highly complex so you really, really need to have done a great deal of research before agreeing and signing.

CBR

Thank you both for your replies.

Yes, my father has instructed LPS's for both property and affairs and personal welfare.

As usual he refused to read the paper work and passed them both over to myself to complete, stating his wishes were the same as my mums.

For the personal welfare I therefore had to state clearly that he did not wish to enter residential care for the elderly or EMI care.

As I stood by my mothers wishes and fought for this on her behalf with my father pressing and pressing the issue I now find that I have am obliged a second time to comply with the instructions.

The conversation about the care home wishes has now gone on since 2004 continuously and the instructions are well drummed into my head.

Therefore with the EPA personal welfare will I still be able to comply with my fathers instructions or will I experience problems?

Errata

Perhaps you need to think of a possible scenario. Your father has a stroke or develops severe dementia which leaves him totally unable to care for himself and, for some reason, he can't be cared for in his own home. He doesn't need a hospital bed, but he does need to be cared for in a care home. What will you do ? Comply with your father's wish that he doesn't want to live in a care home, or use your powers as attorney to ensure you fulfil your responsibility for his personal welfare ?
The only options to the above are to look after your father yourself, and that may not be possible for various reasons, or leave him to rot in his own house.
In your shoes, I would explain to my father that I couldn't promise he would never have to move to a care home, and if he didn't like that then I couldn't be an attorney for his personal welfare and he would have to find someone else to do it.
It's a difficult situation, I hope this helps a bit.

CBR

Last week I told my father that I would not sign the documentation as with signing I would be unable to comply with his wishes of no care home.

I even took the trouble to explain his maisonette being on the second floor and on two levels (kitchen/living room on ground floor, bedrooms/bathroom first floor) was unsuitable in the event that he should be taken ill like my mum.

With that he went into one of his uncontrollable rages and I was required to repeat ten times, no old folks home.

I have now decided having read your replies that I will not sign tommorrow and just take each day as it comes and I shall instruct my brother to do the same.

Thank you all, I realise that I made the right decision and will be able to comply with the no old folks home instruction.

Janey51

CBR it is so hard to be caught in the middle like this.
TBH your Dad is still treating you as a child and you have assumed that role because you love him.
But it will make you ill. It nearly killed me having to decide that Mum needed full time residential care.
The only other solution I could think of would be if Social Services paid you the money to employ carers to look after your Dad in his home. You can do this in Scotland...I forget what it is called.
But the problem is getting good carers as the allowance is not that generous and if your Dad needs nursing care there is only so much that home care can accomplish.

If he wasn't your Dad, you would say he was being selfish and manipulative but you love him and it's hard to be detached.
I started hating my Mum when she was demanding so much of my time.
Now I feel I have my lovely old Mum back..even though her Dementia is progressing rapidly.

Willman_Rodders

Just to add to Errata's post. Your father does have the option in the LPA Personal Welfare to stipulate specific restrictions and conditions - which must be adhered to by the attorney - or he can give his attorneys guidance as to what his wishes are. The latter option is my recommended choice when I advise my clients; no one knows what their future holds, and too often the restriction or condition becomes an unwanted barrier in real life.

In the notes to the document the LPA PW states that it may not be possible to register, or use, the LPA if the restrictions and conditions are unworkable. The guidance notes also warn that including such a restriction can incur additional costs.

I don't envey you your position, but if your father insists on including the restriction/condition then your decision not to sign is probably the right one.

beaujolais-nouveau

Sorry, I just can't let this go by without comment

when I received the message on my answer machine from the social worker to advise that my mother had died.

A social worker used a telephone answering machine to tell someone that their mother had died. The world's gone mad. :mad:

CBR

Very hard to believe I am afraid and to think I was in a meeting with the social worker less than four hours earlier.

My mother was costing social service £110 per day for lying in a bed waiting to die.

The hard thing to come to terms with was if I knew my mum was so near to death I would have left the ward office and spent the afternoon with her.

Very sad.