A "new" career: programming... LAMP? Help!!!

esuhl

fwor wrote: »

I reckon that's a worthwhile ambition.

Gotta start somewhere! I'm trying not to be unrealistic, but I'm really keen to consider what might be possible if I set my mind to it.

fwor wrote: »

Believe me, fixing errors in other people's code is not fun, because you are almost always making the best of a bad job - you are never (usually) given enough time to re-write it the way it should have been written in the first place. After about a year a was lucky enough to be able to shift myself sideways into a different career, and I'm glad I did.

Thanks for the advice - I can imgine that editing spaghetti code would be a bit of a nightmare... but probably good experience (so long as you don't get used to coding dirty hacks all the time!) I love problem-solving and the kind of problem-solving I have to do at the moment just requires knowledge of in-house applications. There's no real creativity...

I just had a quick meeting with one of the developers here who basically said I could either go down the Linux and open-source route (and look at LAMP, Java, etc.) or the .Net route (starting with C# and moving on to ASP.Net, WPF, etc.).

I think I'll have a look at LAMP (particularly MySQL) and C# and see if I can find a course on one or the other to just learn the basics and see where I go. Maybe I won't find it easy; maybe I don't have the aptitude; maybe I won't be able to find any work, but at least I have a bit of an idea as to what I could look into first. I can decide whether a career-change is realistic at a later date.

I really appreciate you (and everyone else who replied) taking the time to offer a few tips/pointers. Thank you all :beer:

Shimrod

Have you thought about trying for some testing jobs at larger companies? It might not be exactly what you want but within a large company you would be more likely to get opportunities to cross train and move into a development role. And if nothing else, you will still have a decent paying job while teaching yourself.
Other skill sets you might want to consider getting familiar with are development methodologies - there is a trend at the moment towards something called 'Agile' development. Look up Scrum - I'm not going to say whether it is the best or not, but it is certainly the most common in the UK at the moment, and agile skills can carry a premium. It would also avoid the potential 'junior' issues encountered by fwor above as teams are self organising - you choose the work you are going to do (from a defined set of tasks).

http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/Results.aspx?Keywords=tester&JobType1=10
http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/Results.aspx?Keywords=scrum&JobType1=10&Radius=5

RobTang

What I would reccomend is, you should learn Classic ASP.

This uses VBScript so you should be very familiar with it and it will reduce the learning barriers so you can focus on HTML/CSS and the few additional things ASP adds to VBScript.

Add on some simple database stuff and you can pretty much start applying for jobs, classic ASP jobs are rarer but are still places avaliable, plus you already have experience in an overlapping field.

Now wether you get a job or not you can start cross training to java or ASP.net (or pure .net) or any other web tech really.


PS Dont discount skills you already have, even if other people dont think much of them, somthing as simple as unix shell scripting is very very valuable and useful on a cv

Blackhat5_2

I should start by saying I work in IT with databases, I don't have a degree, and I got into IT aged 29.

I'd recommend you take the (non-IT) job offer and train yourself whilst working on that job. It's always much more difficult to get into work when you have no job at all, and if you are enthusiastic enough to learn enough then you wouldn't need to pay for training: you'll pick it up yourself. Almost everything I've learned in IT I taught myself, and courses I went on were generally poor value though I do admit that some people like to see them on your CV.

You've identified your own weakness which is being a jack-of-all trades, however you also mention the VBA specialism. Why don't you turn that into an asset and become a better VBA expert, perhaps specialising in Excel. I've seen occasional job posts specifically for Excel experts. Now the domain you work in becomes important: anyone with experience in finance can walk into some astonishing jobs in the City, for instance.

Is there any application you supported at the multinational in which you could specialise and become a developer/expert user? Any specialisms which are rare are likely to keep your CV out of the trash.

You don't need a degree to get into IT although many firms will have it as a minimum entry requirement.... additionally most people are looking primarily for relevant experience. Ths is your problem: how to get that experience. Is there any volunteer work you could do which will enhance your CV, e.g. set up a database driven website for a charity perhaps?

The most important thing is to be good at what you do and don't be put off by people who try to put you off doing what you want. Job agents won't help you: they are interested in selling "dead certs" and I had some very frustrating times trying to get my foot in the door. Age plays a role: if you are older you may not be able to get into one of the junior 20k per year style jobs that are out there as I'm sure ageism is as rife as ever and they'll want someone they can push around.

Be guided by salaries but only because it dictates where there is a lot of demand and people are more likely to disregard your lack of experience.

Remember never to undersell yourself: I've met plenty of people on high salaries in IT who are frankly just not very good at what they do and plenty of them have degrees too. I also know a guy who recruits C++ developers and says they get these guys in for a test and even though they have computer science degrees they can't code an algorithm on the spot.

I'd recommend .NET rather than taking the web development route, but that's only because all the web jobs I've seen look relatively low paid except possibly Java related ones. That can all change very rapidly though and I know there is plenty of development of websites going on thanks to Ajax, for instance.

Had you thought of pursuing a career in databases? Good DBAs are much in demand and it should not have such a steep learning curve as C++ and Java though perhaps not quite as exciting. It's a starting point though, and I'd say a good SQL Server DBA may be slightly harder to find than an Oracle DBA. I could be wrong, of course....

Could you maybe get one or two of the current certificates through self-study (Oracle, Microsoft etc). Databases are everywhere now which is why I mentioned the DBA route for getting into IT. So maybe see which DBA training options there are in Oracle and Microsoft: you might not even need to complete one of the routes in order to impress someone that you are serious and capable.

You may find a public sector employer is most likely to be the place to get your foot in the door: they have strict guidelines on who they interview and if you fit the person specification and prove it in your application they have to interview you and they aren't allowed to reject you for such ridiculous reasons as "your face doesn't fit", and so on.

In summary: specialise in something you enjoy and study hard, never undersell yourself, try and exploit any possible opportunity via any personal connections you have, get some experience anyhow you can, and aim for something you know you enjoy.

Dave

olly300

I agree with BlackHat5 don't take redundancy take the job you are offered and use your spare time to learn up on languages.

If there are people in the company who you can talk to about things then you have already made your life easier as you have a network of people that can be utilised to help and guide you. Also they will probably be getting sent job openings that they are not interested in but can forward to you.

If you work in the IT industry in programming you will find that in your spare time you will be learning a new skill or improving your knowledge so you may as well start as you mean to go on.

Personally most of the courses I've been on (I've not been on that many) that have been technical are a waste of time and money. You can actually get the information off the web and out of books, and learn it yourself.

elvch01

I mostly agree with BlackHat5 & olly300 - but don't ignore some of the "Industry Standard" qualifications; many employers insist on some of these - even though I largely agree with olly300 about technical courses being over-valued & over-priced

DVardysShadow

Most modern languages are in the C syntax family. I would recommend starting with C for text based apps to get the hang of the syntax. Then, the next stage of difficulty is object orientation, so go for C#, Java or C++. If you have done VB.net, then C# is probably the way to go.

C [more than C++] is the language for embedded software - which is a class of its own, but simply for letting you postpone dealing with object orientation, it is worth the effort. Once you have C, you will be comfortable with the syntax of the rest.

ahillsy

RobTang wrote: »

What I would reccomend is, you should learn Classic ASP.

This uses VBScript so you should be very familiar with it and it will reduce the learning barriers so you can focus on HTML/CSS and the few additional things ASP adds to VBScript.

Add on some simple database stuff and you can pretty much start applying for jobs, classic ASP jobs are rarer but are still places avaliable, plus you already have experience in an overlapping field.

Now wether you get a job or not you can start cross training to java or ASP.net (or pure .net) or any other web tech really.


PS Dont discount skills you already have, even if other people dont think much of them, somthing as simple as unix shell scripting is very very valuable and useful on a cv

I've have to disagree tbh. Classic ASP is old hat so starting off in that IMHO wouldn't be time well spent - you're more likely to get into bad habits. Plus you'd get up to speed with how that works and then effectively drop a lot of knowledge if you were then to take the natural progression on to ASP.NET.

If you wanted to head down the MS route, I'd suggest downloading Visual Studio Express (and SQL Server Express if interested) which are free, and trying to pick up .NET from the word go. If you've had exposure to VBScript before you may find it easier to get going with VB.NET. Switching to C# then becomes a lot easier in the future as you get used to the .NET framework.

buglawton

OP did not say what current job is - this context would be useful to know.

Much coding work gets exported to Asia via expert middlemen who do the project management, so UK coders are competing not only with local UK people but Asia too!

The testing suggestion posted above is a good lateral thinking idea but also consider Technical Support for hi tech products or software.

Due to supply & demand (plus quite detailed skill set that is developed in Support), Support salaries can approach that of coding. There's more UK based demand because an understanding of local customer needs and business practices, plus UK office hours presence are all needed. So less chance the work is exported to Asia.

Starting salaries in Support often seem to be low but once in there's real scope for progression depending on your aptitude.

marisa

One website I will bring to the table if you want to learn any coding languages at all is:

stackoverflow

any question you want to know, good chance someone asked it and you have a variety of answers to find one that works of for you, if not sign up and ask it yourself, I got an answer for all my beginner level stuff almost instantly because it is so simple for an expert on there to explain it to yjou, instead of you searching for hours!

I am a software developing graduate, and was starting to look into junior software engineer/ programming role, most beginner level jobs out there (in my area anyway) seem to either want PHP/AJAX/ front-end web dev skills including MVC and common CMS, with a solid portfolio of work to back you up; or .NET, ASP, C# skills.



(personally I decided to temp around on helpdesks instead so I can save up then take time off to travel, was also a little scared of 12month contracts and training schemes and prefer 3months here and there, as degree taught me nothing useful and I was struggling a little to motivate myself to self learn PHP to a good enough level.. - )