Rolled up Holiday Pay Legal or not?

elisebutt65

I've just been reading this thread and have just realised that my employers may be doing this to me

I'm a part time hourly paid contract lecturer and I am given contracts for every term. (Another bone to pick as apparently this doesn't count towards length of service as someone who's just been given redundancy has found out)

I don't get any holiday pay and it is supposed to be part of our hourly rate. But I've had a look around my contract and payslips and nowhere does it state how much is holiday pay! This is quite important as I don't get paid anything in the holidays (esp as I don't work from July to September!!)

I do get a very healthy hourly rate - £24.86 but I only do 16 a week and I survive through the holidays as WTC work e out as term time paid so I still get it rolling through the year - I just get less in the months I do work as it's apportioned out evenly in 52 weekly increments IYSWIM?

So should I be approaching HR and asking them to;
a) separate out my holiday pay on my wage slip or
b) take it out of my pay and give it to me in the official holidays??

Many thanks

Mudd14

Its an interesting question as I have never really applied it to schools/university teachers etc, weird as my partner is a teacher.

I see what you meen about being paid an hourly rate. The difference I suppose on a teacher is that they get an annual salary that is still paid whilst they are in school holidays.

I assume you are not on a set salary but just paid on the basis of hours done? In which case your pay should be split to show a basic pay and the proportion of which is holiday. Thats just my opinion, I dont know if there is any case law specific to teachers which is the only way to get a clear answer on how it would apply.

elisebutt65

Mudd14 wrote: »

Its an interesting question as I have never really applied it to schools/university teachers etc, weird as my partner is a teacher.

I see what you meen about being paid an hourly rate. The difference I suppose on a teacher is that they get an annual salary that is still paid whilst they are in school holidays.

I assume you are not on a set salary but just paid on the basis of hours done? In which case your pay should be split to show a basic pay and the proportion of which is holiday. Thats just my opinion, I dont know if there is any case law specific to teachers which is the only way to get a clear answer on how it would apply.

It's even more tricky as I'm in FE - the ugly sister of education. We're supposed to be paid in line with State education but have they done it yet???? 3 years later and we're still all on our old pay grades:mad:

And yes I'm just paid for hours done

Newbiesw

It's an arguable point as to whether holidays have to be paid only when taking time off or paid when you are paid but shown as a completely separate element on your payslip.
It sounds like they are telling you that your hourly rate is £24.86 including holiday pay and this is illegal but if you know your basic rate is around £22 per hour, then they are paying the correct value inc. Holiday Pay, just showing it illegally.
If the calculation is correct then it shouldn't make any difference whether they pay you £176 per day and save/accumulate your £21 Holiday pay until you are on Holiday or pay you £197 including holiday pay.
The monetary value should be the same whichever way they pay you ?

Not being savvy with school terms I gather you are saying that although you earn this whilst working, they may only pay (say 50% )and the remaing 50% paid over the time you are not working to avoid a feast/famine situation ???

Newbiesw

elisebutt65

Newbiesw wrote: »

It's an arguable point as to whether holidays have to be paid only when taking time off or paid when you are paid but shown as a completely separate element on your payslip.
It sounds like they are telling you that your hourly rate is £24.86 including holiday pay and this is illegal but if you know your basic rate is around £22 per hour, then they are paying the correct value inc. Holiday Pay, just showing it illegally.
If the calculation is correct then it shouldn't make any difference whether they pay you £176 per day and save/accumulate your £21 Holiday pay until you are on Holiday or pay you £197 including holiday pay.
The monetary value should be the same whichever way they pay you ?
At the minute I have no idea how much holiday pay is included - it could be 4p an hour or £4 an hour - I have no information at all - which is where it is illegal as I have no idea whether they are paying me the correct amount or not

Not being savvy with school terms I gather you are saying that although you earn this whilst working, they may only pay (say 50% )and the remaing 50% paid over the time you are not working to avoid a feast/famine situation ???

It's Working Tax Credit who have spread out my payments not my employer. I get nothing at all when I'm not working from my employer, a

Newbiesw

I've also just found out that if I'm there over 2 years (been there 3 now) I'm supposed to move onto a fractional contract as it's assumed I'm a permanent member of staff. Also the contracts I've signed are specifically for hourly paid lecturers who work 10 hours a week or less. I do 16!

Think I may have to go and see my UCU rep.

Newbiesw

Thanks for clarifying, wasn't sure what WTC was or mistype for WTD !!!
You illustrate the whole debate over "Rolled Up" holiday pay perfectly.
Unless you are shown the value separately, you don't know whether you are getting it if you are also unsure of your basic hourly rate.
Think the best first course is to establish your basic hourly rate excluding holiday pay ?

Newbiesw

tishunt

I've been reading this thread with some interest.

My DH works for a employment agency. his hourly rate is £7.50 (stated on the contract and payslip)

However, although they pay him 35 hours at £7.50 they then deduct an amount stating it as "Holiday fund Accrued" hence reducing his hourly rate to £6.60.

Is this legal?

Much help appreciated

Hammyman

Rolled up holiday pay was initially deemed to be illegal in a EU test case. The law in the UK was then amended so that as long as the amount of holiday pay in your hourly/weekly rate is clearly stated then it is legal to roll up holiday pay.

Hammyman

tishunt wrote: »

I've been reading this thread with some interest.

My DH works for a employment agency. his hourly rate is £7.50 (stated on the contract and payslip)

However, although they pay him 35 hours at £7.50 they then deduct an amount stating it as "Holiday fund Accrued" hence reducing his hourly rate to £6.60.

Is this legal?

Much help appreciated

"It depends".

Is he being paid via an umbrella company or part of an umbrella company scheme?

tishunt

He is employed by a employent agency to work at a third party's site.

Hammyman

tishunt wrote: »

He is employed by a employent agency to work at a third party's site.

Yes, that bit I got but is the employment agency paying him via an umbrella company scheme? "Holiday Fund Accrued" certainly sounds like it. He would then get paid what was in the pot when he took holidays.