Help needed with unfair treatment

Ausberg

Please forgive me for being a complete newbie at this - but hopefully there is some advice out there that can help.

We live in a large converted house comprising of 18 freehold flats, which is poorly maintained by four residents who are self appointed 'directors' of our management company.

To cut a very long story short, following improvements we have made within our flat (which at first we did not realise required the management companies permission) we feel we have now been victimised and actually harassed regarding their recent decision which has been made by the 'directors' to return our flat to it's original state. We have complied with every aspect of their requests for information/drawings and been very cooperative.

Similar and more extensive changes have been fully approved by this management company in respect of other flats, so further proof that we feel we are being treated totally unfairly in this situation.

Really all we need to know is if these residents have any actual legal power in controlling our lives. Can we tell them that we disagree and due to their behavior against us, if they pursue us any further it will result in legal proceedings against them?

Thanks for your time.

Running_Horse

Tell them you have returned the flat to its original condition.

Don't let them inspect it.

Ausberg

Thanks for your reply. Good idea. Although, they have given us a date to have carried out the work by, and would definitely assume we have not complied if we deny inspection. So only issue with doing that is when we come to sell in the next year or so they could make things difficult - or can they... I'm not sure.

Annisele

Presumably this management company owns the freehold? If it does, a dispute with your freeholder could make things very difficult indeed when you came to sell (to the point where many potential buyers would simply walk away).

What sort of 'improvements' are you talking about? If the management company owns the freehold, it's possible (depending on what the lease says and what the improvements are) that they can make you put it back the way it was.

If the cost of putting it back is more than negligible, I'd suggest you seek legal advice. A solicitor could look at your lease, your plans, and the correspondence exchanged so far, and give you a decent idea of your likely position. You really need to get this sorted before you come to sell, as (depending on the nature of these improvements, and whether the management company is also the freeholder) the dispute could make your flat virtually unsaleable. Don't panic though! The fact that other people have been given permission to do similar things is hopeful.

For now, I'd suggest that you don't start legal proceedings for harassment - I think that that would just increase tensions on all sides (but IANAL - if your lawyer says to start harassment proceedings, listen to him). If your lease says that you needed permission and you didn't get it, then unfortunately you are the ones initially in the wrong. That doesn't give anyone the right to harass you of course, but it does mean that you are starting on the back foot and so a conciliatory approach might serve you better than a confrontational one.

Fire_Fox

Ausberg wrote: »

Please forgive me for being a complete newbie at this - but hopefully there is some advice out there that can help.

We live in a large converted house comprising of 18 freehold flats, which is poorly maintained by four residents who are self appointed 'directors' of our management company.

To cut a very long story short, following improvements we have made within our flat (which at first we did not realise required the management companies permission) we feel we have now been victimised and actually harassed regarding their recent decision which has been made by the 'directors' to return our flat to it's original state. We have complied with every aspect of their requests for information/drawings and been very cooperative.

Similar and more extensive changes have been fully approved by this management company in respect of other flats, so further proof that we feel we are being treated totally unfairly in this situation.

Really all we need to know is if these residents have any actual legal power in controlling our lives. Can we tell them that we disagree and due to their behavior against us, if they pursue us any further it will result in legal proceedings against them?

Thanks for your time.

Are you sure you are freehold or are you share of freehold (big difference)? Why are these four people self-appointed, how is the management company set up, do you have a vote? Have you expressed your concerns in writing over the poor standard of maintenance? On what grounds are you being asked to return the flat to it's original state, are there safety concerns?

Have you read your long lease so you are aware of the rights and responsibilities of both leaseholders and the management company? Have you seen this site? http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/
You do not need legal advice at this stage, your best avenue for a formal complaint (if you cannot resolve this amicably) is not court but a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal. These are set up to be layman-friendly so you do not need legal representation simply to have researched the legislation (see link above). In many cases with self-management the directors do not understand the law which you can turn to your advantage. A less formal avenue for dispute resolution is the LEASE mediation service.

Ausberg

Annisele wrote: »

Presumably this management company owns the freehold? If it does, a dispute with your freeholder could make things very difficult indeed when you came to sell (to the point where many potential buyers would simply walk away).

What sort of 'improvements' are you talking about? If the management company owns the freehold, it's possible (depending on what the lease says and what the improvements are) that they can make you put it back the way it was.

If the cost of putting it back is more than negligible, I'd suggest you seek legal advice. A solicitor could look at your lease, your plans, and the correspondence exchanged so far, and give you a decent idea of your likely position. You really need to get this sorted before you come to sell, as (depending on the nature of these improvements, and whether the management company is also the freeholder) the dispute could make your flat virtually unsaleable. Don't panic though! The fact that other people have been given permission to do similar things is hopeful.

For now, I'd suggest that you don't start legal proceedings for harassment - I think that that would just increase tensions on all sides (but IANAL - if your lawyer says to start harassment proceedings, listen to him). If your lease says that you needed permission and you didn't get it, then unfortunately you are the ones initially in the wrong. That doesn't give anyone the right to harass you of course, but it does mean that you are starting on the back foot and so a conciliatory approach might serve you better than a confrontational one.

Thanks very much for your response, very helpful advice. We are certainly on the back foot here. Apparently the lease does stipulate changes to be agreed by the management company, which we are now aware of and expected a retrospective permission would be granted given similar cases before being retrospectively approved, which as you mention is a positive. I agree with your suggestions and being forthcoming has been our approach so far. Although feeling now it has not got us anywhere, we're at a stage where it is affecting our feeling towards living in our own home. Something that must be respected and is where the harassment comes in to play. But perhaps it would only make the situation worse to bring this issue up as well.

In answer to your questions, each of the flats own a share of the freehold and this was the case before we started any changes. To give a little more detail on the improvements, the flat is a one bedroom split with mezzanine floor which we extended the mezzanine floor (our builder carried out the work) to increase the space of the bedroom. The reasons for refusal of permission are: the changes constitute the creation of a two bedroom flat which is not as the developer intended and could cause parking issues and additional noise.
To quote these as reasons for refusal seem laughable given the fact that this room backs onto the large communal hallways and features a flat roof, i.e. no direct neighbours. The room has more space by our improvements, but certainly would not be deemed two bedroom or be suitable for larger families. Either way any future occupants would have to abide by both noise and parking restrictions as both are set out in the lease.

Great to be speaking/writing about this with some friendly advice btw!

Fire_Fox

:eek: Sounds like a nonsense reason to me! You could complete an application form for the LEASE mediation service, IIRC it's around £50 from each party which is only payable if the mediation goes ahead, for that you get a professional to mediate but the sessions are only in London. LEASE can approach the management company on your behalf: ours repeatedly ignored the requests which we felt would look very unfavourable if the case ended up in court or at an LVT.

Mediation has the advantage of showing that you are serious and know your rights yet (hopefully) not burning any bridges or starting a major dispute which you may have to declare on sale. Lastly it may be quicker than an LVT. It may also be worth you searching through the LVT decisions on the LEASE website which may throw up a precedent. If you do decide to go to a solicitor, look for one who specialises in leasehold disputes and is familiar with LVTs.

Ausberg

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Are you sure you are freehold or are you share of freehold (big difference)? Why are these four people self-appointed, how is the management company set up, do you have a vote? Have you expressed your concerns in writing over the poor standard of maintenance? On what grounds are you being asked to return the flat to it's original state, are there safety concerns?

Have you read your long lease so you are aware of the rights and responsibilities of both leaseholders and the management company? Have you seen this site? ...
You do not need legal advice at this stage, your best avenue for a formal complaint (if you cannot resolve this amicably) is not court but a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal. These are set up to be layman-friendly so you do not need legal representation simply to have researched the legislation (see link above). In many cases with self-management the directors do not understand the law which you can turn to your advantage. A less formal avenue for dispute resolution is the LEASE mediation service.

Thanks for your reply, very interesting points. Hopefully part of the previous reply with answer some of the questions you raise. Interesting to hear about the Leasehold tribunal, and Lease mediation service. if there is a case against the management company, because technically we have been in the wrong initially. I wonder if they'd be on our-side as such... Perhaps the threat of this will make the management company re-consider their decision.

We definitely own a share of the freehold. The management team are long standing and seem to decide by themselves who is to stay 'in power'. There is no residents vote as to who is chosen to run the company. In terms of poor management, we have previously written regarding damp issues which have been ignored and countless burglaries occurring in the past and recently due to easy entry into the insecure main door which has simply not been dealt with properly.

I know for a fact there are no safety concerns, as the local council building control had advised the escape (existing staircase) was adequate and stipulated that fireproof material was used in the extended areas.

Re the lease-advice site link, will take a read through, we have been told the relevant areas specific to this issue in the contents of the lease but do not have a copy.

Fire_Fox

Download a copy of your long lease from the land registry website for a few quid: be sure to get the leasehold and not the freehold title. You will need a copy before taking legal advice, speaking to the LEASE advice line, going to an LVT or the mediation service!

I think the reasons you have been given for refusal of retrospective permission are spurious. As you say you likely have breached the lease so I would not like to test the case at an LVT unless LEASE or an experienced solicitor advise differently. Mediation is explained on the LEASE site, I think for your particular circumstances it is worth a shot as offering costs nothing.

I would not advise complaining about management generally until you have a much fuller understanding of your rights and responsibilities as a leaseholder - if you haven't even got a copy of your long lease I don't see how you can be confident of what the management company should or should not be doing. For example, many long leases make no provision for improvements (?security door) - if yours does not this cannot be charged to leaseholders without all being in agreement.

moromir

In response to all the people advising you to refuse to allow any inspection, do note that most head leases will make provision for the Freeholder/its appointed Directors or their representatives to have a right of access to the property in order to assess potential breach of lease issues, access to pipework/wiring serving other flats/communal areas etc all that kind of thing so you really need to check that out.

ETA: As a side note - you haven't inadvertantly built over any access points to pipework/wiring etc that may serve other flats?

Ausberg

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Download a copy of your long lease from the land registry website for a few quid: be sure to get the leasehold and not the freehold title. You will need a copy before taking legal advice, speaking to the LEASE advice line, going to an LVT or the mediation service!

I think the reasons you have been given for refusal of retrospective permission are spurious. As you say you likely have breached the lease so I would not like to test the case at an LVT unless LEASE or an experienced solicitor advise differently. Mediation is explained on the LEASE site, I think for your particular circumstances it is worth a shot as offering costs nothing.

I would not advise complaining about management generally until you have a much fuller understanding of your rights and responsibilities as a leaseholder - if you haven't even got a copy of your long lease I don't see how you can be confident of what the management company should or should not be doing. For example, many long leases make no provision for improvements (?security door) - if yours does not this cannot be charged to leaseholders without all being in agreement.

Sorry for the delay... glad you agree that their reasoning is nonsense! This should be positive in our argument.

I think the mediation service is a good option, it does take things further with more weight than just writing letters to explain ourselves, which are just ignored. Read through the mediation procedure on their site. Although still worried that, although we do have a case against the management company and their reasoning seems feeble, fundamentally they are still in the right and we are in the wrong. So concerned that our point of view will not be recognised/accepted.

Will take a read through the Lease website LVT decisions before doing anything else, there is a lot on there which could be quite relevant and may help decide which route to take first.

Had a look on the land registry website, should the lease plans be £49? Maybe I'm looking on the wrong site - Land registry deeds. The Land registry government site did not seem to have this feature. Agree we will need to see our lease to be sure the management company are correct with their demands (although at the moment we assume they are) before raising any other issues.

To be honest, the treatment we've received so far leaves us wanting to move as soon as this problem is solved.

So to summarise our way forward, following research on the above, perhaps if we write to the management company, in response to the demands to return the mezzanine to it's original condition. Saying that we disagree with their decision, explain our reasoning for such, and that we feel their decision is unreasonable and we are being unfairly treated, therefore will be contacting the Lease mediation service to take this further.

Thank you for the great advice.