ID Fraud and Thumbprints on Credit Files

schneckster

Hi,

If this is the wrong forum for this post, then my apologies.

OK, my missus has recently become a victim of ID theft. She made a couple of payments over the phone and I suspect one of these was less than trustworthy. She seems to have caught it early with only £70 and a couple of overseas attempts to use the card details and the bank cancelled all her cards yesterday so hopefully that's the end of it.

However, it is the affect on her credit rating that is most worrying. Her ex-husband completely screwed that up a few years back leaving her with CCJ's and missed payments due to too much owed and not enough income. She's only just got that sorted to find she's had her card cloned.

Now, I'm sure a reply will follow from a certain Mr Jamieson with his idea of putting your thumbprint on your credit report. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a fantastic idea and he should be comended for thinking of it when the banks didn't (why shops can't have a thumb scanner instead of chip & pin is beyond me. The technology is there and card fraud would be slashed overnight) But being the sceptical type, I'd like to hear from anyone else who has used this idea with their experiences both good and bad.

So, does it work or is it a good way of selling inkless thumb pads? :rotfl:

Thanks in advance,

Schneckster

benoit

Have you actually tried getting the Credit Reference Agencies to accept your thumb print? It's actually a heck of a lot easier to fit a whale up your bumhole.

onlypaddy

benoit wrote: »

Have you actually tried getting the Credit Reference Agencies to accept your thumb print? It's actually a heck of a lot easier to fit a whale up your bumhole.

I'm quite disturbed that you've tried this.....

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

benoit

My friend told me. LOL

MPH80

(why shops can't have a thumb scanner instead of chip & pin is beyond me. The technology is there and card fraud would be slashed overnight)

There are several answers to this:

1) Cost - a pin pad is far cheaper than the optical scanner and processing cost (programmers etc) for thumb prints.

2) Accuracy - a minor cut on your thumb would affect the result - locking someone out of their card. You could allow an override in the event they have a plaster on or have a cut - but then the fraudster just has to wear a plaster!

Put simply - there's a reason *all* of your prints are now taken at the US border - it's because one print simply isn't enough.

3) Reliability - the more complex the tech - the less reliable it is (as a general rule)

4) Processing power - the pin, and the software to match it, is stored on the card - if you put the thumbprint on there - the power to analyse it also has to be on there (otherwise the card would have to be able to supply the original thumbprint which allows a clone to be made). Building that into a credit card format would be tricky. Alternatively - the thumb print (and software) has to be at the bank - which requires all terminals to be online - meaning the train ticket terminals etc wouldn't work without a phone/internet connection.

5) Recording the thumb print. You have to get the thumbprint into the system somehow - meaning you have to get everyone back to the bank for an appointment to do so.

The maths is actually very simple - is fraud costing the bank more (over a period of time) than the cost of implementing something that would stop it?

But there's a further point - just because a fraudster gave their thumb print at a point of sale for a card doesn't mean you could identify them. They have to be in the system somewhere in the first place. Of course - once you catch them - it's relatively easy enough to prove it was them.

Having said that - finger readers can be fooled:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=175001741

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8400222.stm

M.

schneckster

MPH80,
To answer your points:

1) Cost

You can get fingerprint apps for Iphones and the like. Every supermarket has a barcode scanner in it. Fingerprint reading is little different and the technology isn't that expensive in comparison. Our local council has installed them in school canteens so that the kids have a preloaded account accessible by their thumbprint at lunchtime - money bullying has been slashed. If a cash trapped local council can do it, banks and shops certainly can.

2) Accuracy - a minor cut on your thumb would affect the result

If this were true, fingerprint evidence in courts would be inadmissable. The fact is, fingerprint recognition relies on many points on the print so that marks like cuts can be ignored. I think it's 10 points on the print have to match before it is deemed a match by a court.

3) Reliability - the more complex the tech - the less reliable it is (as a general rule)

This argument always winds me up. If it actually washed, we'd still be living in huts and banging mammoths over the head with clubs. They said the same about chip & pin when that came out, yet here we are. The technology involved is actually quite well established and relatively uncomplicated. Reliability shouldn't be an issue.

4) Processing power -

Most card terminals are online anyway so that security checks can be made and the sale registered with the bank. The thumbprint could be simply an image file which the chips on cards can easily take, or stored on the banks server for encrypted download in response to the card number.

5) Recording the thumb print...

Use my thumbprint instead of a pin number I can forget, or someone else can see me type? I think 5 minute trip to the bank would be worth that.

The fact is, the cost of implementing chip & pin was mentioned before signatures were phased out. This would be no different, would it? Fraudulent transactions are paid for by the banks as, usually, you get your money back. So surely, anything that reduces fraudulent transactions is something they will want to look at as it is their profits after all.

And as for not recognising the fraudster... if they've nicked your card and tried to use their thumbprint as your's, chances are, they too have their own card. So chances are, their thumbprint would already be in a system.

This sort of system can be fooled... but each new system is more difficult to fool than the previous one. It's a step in the right direction which I see no reason, other than profit, why it's not done.

But it still doesn't answer my OP... has anyone used their thumbprint with the credit agencies and if so, what was their experiences - and can we leave large sea dwelling mammals out of it (literally??? :eek:) please??? :rotfl:

Schneckster

benoit

Sorry about the Whale. I was just trying to make a realistic as possible comparison about how hard it is to get the relevant authorities to even accept the fingerprint security.

I have not actually tried the Fingerprint (or the whale lol) but i do recall reading something similar on here from someone who did supply his fingerprint to all the main 3 CRA's and he really had a battle to get them to accept it.

I believe it took numerous letters and phone calls with 2 of them & the 3rd was so against entertaining the idea that he just gave up in the end.

schneckster

The whale thing made me laugh, so no problems with it... though the whale may disagree!! :rotfl:

Schneckster

hippey

One a serious note, thumb prints or fingerprints in general are a legal minefield who would have access to them etc etc.... At the moment the 'livescan' system will return result for fingerprints in a few minutes but this isn't acceptable for point of sale purposes can you imagine the lines!

But could be used for credit checking ??? But then if we all had biometric ID Cards this issue might not be a problem, but that's a whole new ball game

PROLIANT

Guys I think your missing the point here; you can put a thumbprint on your file, not literally but a notice of correction that will auto refer any credit application so the lender will contact the applicant in order to verify the authenticity/identity of the applicant.

pb3

schneckster wrote: »

Hi,

Now, I'm sure a reply will follow from a certain Mr Jamieson with his idea of putting your thumbprint on your credit report. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a fantastic idea and he should be comended for thinking of it when the banks didn't (why shops can't have a thumb scanner instead of chip & pin is beyond me. The technology is there and card fraud would be slashed overnight) But being the sceptical type, I'd like to hear from anyone else who has used this idea with their experiences both good and bad.

Schneckster

Ah but the thumbprint "miracle idea" has been thought of before.

Some of us may well remember a few years back that this "miracle idea" was trialled in certain town centres around the country. One of them was Hounslow in West London.

A number of strategically placed placards magically appeared around the town with a large picture of a thumbprint, heralding a new system that would work hand in hand with the Metropolitan Police in cutting credit and debit card fraud.

The new scanners appeared at the tills in most of the main stores in the High Street. Howver a few weeks later, before the new system was activiated, a number of stores began displaying prominent notices besides the tills. These notices sought to assure shoppers that there was nothing to fear from the new system and that details of thumbprints would not be passed on the Police :rotfl:

The new miracle system never went live. A few weeks later the equipment quietly disappeared from all the stores. The placards stayed up for about a year llater but then eventually vanished as well.

Allegedy - and I'm unable to confirm this - It was claimed that the number of muggings in towns deploying the new system went up as people resorted to carrying around large amount of cash rather than paying by credit card. If so then either there was huge public mistrust in the system or there were a large amount of criminals out there

I'd never buy anything (using a credit card) from any store that deployed such a system. Certainly there appeared to be a large number of like minded people around, leading to the banks and cc companies pulling the plug.