Frightened about my future

di3004

Just thought I would post this up here, this is in regards of my hubby's credit card he taken out in Sept 2007.


Dear

Account number: 18 Feb 2010.


I write in response to your request for a copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement under section 78 of the Consumer act 1974 (CCA).

I have enclosed with this letter a copy of your executed agreement, and a signed statement of your account.
By providing you with the documents attached to this letter, we have satisfied out obligation to provide a copy of the executed agreement under section 78. There is no requirement under the CCA to provide you with a copy of the original Signed agreement, but notwithstanding that fact, please find enclosed such a copy for your records. For the avoidance of any doubt, we have set out in the appendix to this letter your rights under section 78.

Having satisfied our obligation under section 78, the agreement you have with us is fully enforceable and we shall continue to treat it as such. We will not be entering into any further correspondence with you regarding provision of copy agreements.

If you are using the services of a claims management company (Whatever made them think that)? We would like to remind you of the recent warnings issued by the Ministry of Justice and Citizens Advice Bureay. You can find more details about both at:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/newsrelease170209a.htm
and
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_20090217

The Ministry of Justice headlines reads "Businesses that mislead the public by claiming they can arrange for unpaid loans, credit card debts or other consumer debts to be written off have been told to stop or face action Justice Minister Bridget Prentice said today, as new guidance was issued by the Ministry of Justice.

If you would like to discuss your finances, come into one of our branches and see a financial health specialist. Our financial health specialists have been trained to provide a free service to help you with your finances, giving you guidance and action plans to get you finances back into shape.
All you need to do is come into a branch and have a chat with one of them.

To find your closest financial health specialist, simply use the financial health specialist locator at www.lloydstsb.co.uk or call 0845 3000 000.

Finally, we must remind you that failure to make payments under this agreement will result in collection activities and any default may also be reported to credit reference agencies.

Statement of account £

The entire amount is due and payable immediately

Your sincerely

Customer Accounts Administrator.

mouseann

3Dogs wrote: »

Welcome back Ann - that poor dog will be getting wrong now for trying to get into the sitting room all the time.

Thanks 3Dogs,

Actually, she did try it a couple of times while I was still there! I just put on an innocent face and pretended not to notice it! Think they were pleased because they had saved kennel fees and the chore of taking and collecting the dog and two cats. Plus, a neighbour usually feeds the rabbits! Don't let the rabbits out, though!

Perhaps I should set up a house sitting business ... (with ironing as an optional extra!)

And the work aspect is a result of me sending a quick email to Niddy! Didn't expect such a rapid response but am exceptionally grateful for it!

never-in-doubt

mouseann wrote: »

Thanks Niddy,

This is very reassuring!

I am certainly looking forward to it all being "done and dusted"!

My only slight concern is that I am going to back to my son's for nearly 3 weeks in about 6 weeks time. Hopefully, any communication which arrives while I am away can wait until my return? The stuff waiting for me today certainly could wait - not sure whether I will receive anything more urgent than that?

Hi Ann

Everything can wait, lets say worse case scenario that they went and got a ccj against you, when you were away (i.e. gave you 7 days notice and you miss it) - so what, we can get them set-aside within 28 days of them being issued so not a problem, obviously we don't want to have to fight with the courts but it is relatively easy at the end of the day.

As time progresses and the lenders learn of your status and realise that you aint paying - they may start to be more aggressive, ergo I stated the process above - however aggression doesn't change the law, so luckily the same rules apply (at your end) but the DCA's may try and scare you with threats, sometimes they do go for a CCJ - it just means having to defend it which is a pain, especially cos my CCJ expert (10past6) is missing in action :think:

Maybe he's had enough of this forum, like I have! :cool:

Anyway, don't worry - point is whatever may be done, can be reversed easily enough, ok? Things will be fine.

mouseann

di3004 wrote: »

Just thought I would post this up here, this is in regards of my hubby's credit card he taken out in Sept 2007.


Dear

Account number: 18 Feb 2010.


I write in response to your request for a copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement under section 78 of the Consumer act 1974 (CCA).

I have enclosed with this letter a copy of your executed agreement, and a signed statement of your account.
By providing you with the documents attached to this letter, we have satisfied out obligation to provide a copy of the executed agreement under section 78. There is no requirement under the CCA to provide you with a copy of the original Signed agreement, but notwithstanding that fact, please find enclosed such a copy for your records. For the avoidance of any doubt, we have set out in the appendix to this letter your rights under section 78.

Having satisfied our obligation under section 78, the agreement you have with us is fully enforceable and we shall continue to treat it as such. We will not be entering into any further correspondence with you regarding provision of copy agreements.

If you are using the services of a claims management company (Whatever made them think that)? We would like to remind you of the recent warnings issued by the Ministry of Justice and Citizens Advice Bureay. You can find more details about both at:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/newsrelease170209a.htm
and
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_20090217

The Ministry of Justice headlines reads "Businesses that mislead the public by claiming they can arrange for unpaid loans, credit card debts or other consumer debts to be written off have been told to stop or face action Justice Minister Bridget Prentice said today, as new guidance was issued by the Ministry of Justice.

If you would like to discuss your finances, come into one of our branches and see a financial health specialist. Our financial health specialists have been trained to provide a free service to help you with your finances, giving you guidance and action plans to get you finances back into shape.
All you need to do is come into a branch and have a chat with one of them.

To find your closest financial health specialist, simply use the financial health specialist locator at www.lloydstsb.co.uk or call 0845 3000 000.

Finally, we must remind you that failure to make payments under this agreement will result in collection activities and any default may also be reported to credit reference agencies.

Statement of account £

The entire amount is due and payable immediately

Your sincerely

Customer Accounts Administrator.

These are scary, Di.

And don't you like the job titles they give themselves "Financial Health Specialist"!

Don't think we would use that particular job title for them!

never-in-doubt

di3004 wrote: »

Just thought I would post this up here, this is in regards of my hubby's credit card he taken out in Sept 2007..

Di

They have you on this one, a recon is perfectly acceptable as the account is POST April '07. Ergo they can cut and past til the cows come home and present it to a judge, well they can't really but they think they can!

Ok, POST 04/07 - what do we know about them? Pretty much the main difference is that the lender can fabricate an agreement and pass it off as an original, the reason for this was the recent test case (Carey v HSBC) BUT what they fail to say is that they actually still need to present the original agreement to the judge before the judge could pass down a CCJ. Point is, there is no provision for you to hide under s.127 as this was repealed for POST 04/07 agreements so the only way to "get the debt written off" is by them not having an original agreement and you proving that they don't - its a totally different kettle of fish and not one i'd suggest fighting.

Hope the above helps explain things a little easier to people that don't know the main difference with agreements after April 2007.

mouseann

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hi Ann

Everything can wait, lets say worse case scenario that they went and got a ccj against you, when you were away (i.e. gave you 7 days notice and you miss it) - so what, we can get them set-aside within 28 days of them being issued so not a problem, obviously we don't want to have to fight with the courts but it is relatively easy at the end of the day.

As time progresses and the lenders learn of your status and realise that you aint paying - they may start to be more aggressive, ergo I stated the process above - however aggression doesn't change the law, so luckily the same rules apply (at your end) but the DCA's may try and scare you with threats, sometimes they do go for a CCJ - it just means having to defend it which is a pain, especially cos my CCJ expert (10past6) is missing in action :think:

Maybe he's had enough of this forum, like I have! :cool:

Anyway, don't worry - point is whatever may be done, can be reversed easily enough, ok? Things will be fine.

Thanks again Niddy,

More reassurance!

I agree that the court issue is a bit scary - but I will cross that bridge when (if, even?) I come to it. No point in worrying about things which may happen in the future - see I am learning!

never-in-doubt

mouseann wrote: »

Thanks again Niddy,

More reassurance!

I agree that the court issue is a bit scary - but I will cross that bridge when (if, even?) I come to it. No point in worrying about things which may happen in the future - see I am learning!

Ann,

The court thing is actually easy, you never need go - its all done online / postal. Its not like you sit there and argue your case, well not unless you wanted to? I'd like to think you'd be able to present your defence based on facts and proof you already have.

This is why a good filing system with dates (event planner) is ideal when dealing with this as each breach can be used against the lender, even little things like sending letters a week after the lawful guidelines suggest, is ammunition against them - everything that discredits them is a help.

They usually come out with classics like "We guarantee we'd never open an account without a siggy" and the likes, to which you'd reply "well prove it, send me a copy of the original then" - they then argue that it was misfiled due to system interrogation or some other bull story, to which you then throw back at them the fact all documents are lies, mis informative, illegal threats etc etc - basically you discredit their original statement where they pretend to be all high-and-mighty.

I know for a fact I have been given a credit card in the last 2 years and not once signed anything! How does that work in court, could be interesting if I ever decided to pursue it LOL - point is, that was from HSBC......

mouseann

never-in-doubt wrote: »

This is why a good filing system with dates (event planner) is ideal when dealing with this as each breach can be used against the lender, even little things like sending letters a week after the lawful guidelines suggest, is ammunition against them - everything that discredits them is a help.

Thanks Niddy,

I have kept every single piece of paper sent me since we started the process.

Also, have an Excel spreadsheet detailing the dates the responses were received, and the dates I sent off the responses from here.

Only thing I am not quite sure about, do I need to keep all the default notices/reminders? These are piling up!

di3004

Thanks for that Niddy

There is another part as well, think this is just procedure not sure.....

APPENDIX - YOUR RIGHTS UNDER SECTION 78 OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

Compliance with section 78 is achieved simply by sending you a current version of your agreement but we understand that some customers wrongly believe that they are entitled to an original signed copy of the agreement.

You will note that section 78 refers to the requirement to provide a copy of the executed agreement.
The executed agreement is the document which has been signed by or on behalf of both parties or, in other words, the original signed - see section 189 (1). The copy of the executed agreement, however, is the copy required to be sent by virtue of section 63 of the CCA.

The form and content of copies of agreements (including those provided under sections 63 and 78) are prescribed under the power contained 180 of the CCA which authorises "...the omission from a copy of a certain material contained in the original..." This provision therefore enables copies of documents to differ from the original signed agreement.

CONSUMER CREDIT (CANCELLATION NOTICES AND COPIES OF DOCUMENTS) REGULATIONS 1983.

The regulations that have been enacted under section 180 and which set out what information needs to be contained in the different copies of documents are the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (CNCD Regulations). Regulations 3(1) of the CNCD Regulations provides for the general obligation that all copies of executed agreements must be "true copies" of the agreement.
The CNCD Regulations then set out of the content may be omitted from or altered in any such "true copy" so, when creating a copy of the relevant executed agreement which must be provided under the CCA, a creditor may exclude, amongst other information, any signature box or signature or date of signature. Since the relevant copies may be altered as permitted by the CNCD Regulations, it is evident that "photocopies" of the original signed agreement do not need to be provided.

never-in-doubt

mouseann wrote: »

Only thing I am not quite sure about, do I need to keep all the default notices/reminders? These are piling up!

Ann

You need to keep the official default & termination notices that will look like the following examples:

- Default Notice: http://i44.tinypic.com/2qa5wds.jpg

- Termination Notice: http://i43.tinypic.com/ok3ih2.jpg

So, based on the above two documents, can anyone spot why anyone attempting to obtain a CCJ would lose their case?







Ok, i'll explain....

Look at the temination notice, what date has they suggested the default notice was sent? Now look at the default notice and notice the issuance date?

That is how you get a CCJ set aside and that is why maintaining a paper trail is paramount!

Hope this helps explain things...... :cool: