ESA - Systematic Failure

andyandflo

Hi everyone. Thought I would post an update. In just over 1 week after solicitors became involved (see earlier posts re my findings on CAB & MP's), I have had a face to face meeting with a guy from DWP instructed by the Parlimentary Under Secretary (Leigh Lewis), to review my case, and had a long letter from the Disrtict Manager - DWP.
In addition had the Customer Services Manager from the local BDC tell me that they are 'desperate' to issue a giro to bring me up to date from 5/1/10! With a promise that payments will continue until the appeal date!!!
In addition a 'special payment' has already been authorised to compensate me for the '!!!!-ups' re failing to notify me of a Decision etc. Also been told that a further 'special payment' to compensate for failing to answer letters is being discussed. Well well!! It seems bringing in the legal people does make results.
All of this has cost me money, money that I can ill afford to pay. The backdated giro will go towards that cost.
It does seem totally unfair that people who are genuinely ill have to take this drastic action to secure what they are entitled to.
As regards the appeal, the advice given to me is that all of my medical evidence should NOT go to the Decision Maker, but should be kept back until before the appeal hearing when the DWP send their package of evidence. My evidence can then go by exchange. Been told this is because the Decision Maker can go for another ATOS medical, presumably to try and destroy the creditability of my GP, Consultants' and Occupational Health reports!!!!
What a minefield, and we think having the DWP medical is bad!!!!
Thanks

[Deleted User]

and your question about benefits is?

Molly41

I felt the need to respond to this post as we only get to read the horror stories on this board.

I applied for ESA last march, went through the process was awarded work related but had to appeal it as I cant even stand up without falling down so work was unfortunately pretty much out of the equation. I was put in the support group upon reconsideration. It took a few weeks and was dealt with very efficiently. In January this year i had to fill in another questionnaire. I was filled with horror at the thought but filled it in and sent it back along with my latest consultant letters. Within a WEEK i had a decision - I am still in the support group for two years or until my condition hopefully improves.

I totally understand the stress you are currently under and wish you well with your appeal. I know the system lets people down but sometimes, just sometimes, they get it right.

nogginthenog

andyandflo wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thought I would post an update. In just over 1 week after solicitors became involved (see earlier posts re my findings on CAB & MP's), I have had a face to face meeting with a guy from DWP instructed by the Parlimentary Under Secretary (Leigh Lewis), to review my case, and had a long letter from the Disrtict Manager - DWP.
In addition had the Customer Services Manager from the local BDC tell me that they are 'desperate' to issue a giro to bring me up to date from 5/1/10! With a promise that payments will continue until the appeal date!!!
In addition a 'special payment' has already been authorised to compensate me for the '!!!!-ups' re failing to notify me of a Decision etc. Also been told that a further 'special payment' to compensate for failing to answer letters is being discussed. Well well!! It seems bringing in the legal people does make results.
All of this has cost me money, money that I can ill afford to pay. The backdated giro will go towards that cost.
It does seem totally unfair that people who are genuinely ill have to take this drastic action to secure what they are entitled to.
As regards the appeal, the advice given to me is that all of my medical evidence should NOT go to the Decision Maker, but should be kept back until before the appeal hearing when the DWP send their package of evidence. My evidence can then go by exchange. Been told this is because the Decision Maker can go for another ATOS medical, presumably to try and destroy the creditability of my GP, Consultants' and Occupational Health reports!!!!
What a minefield, and we think having the DWP medical is bad!!!!
Thanks

Why on Earth would anyone send medical evidence to DWP decision maker anyway?,They have no medical training.
I have always advised keeping evidence back for a possible appeal.

sunnyone

andyandflo wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thought I would post an update. In just over 1 week after solicitors became involved (see earlier posts re my findings on CAB & MP's), I have had a face to face meeting with a guy from DWP instructed by the Parlimentary Under Secretary (Leigh Lewis), to review my case, and had a long letter from the Disrtict Manager - DWP.
In addition had the Customer Services Manager from the local BDC tell me that they are 'desperate' to issue a giro to bring me up to date from 5/1/10! With a promise that payments will continue until the appeal date!!!
In addition a 'special payment' has already been authorised to compensate me for the '!!!!-ups' re failing to notify me of a Decision etc. Also been told that a further 'special payment' to compensate for failing to answer letters is being discussed. Well well!! It seems bringing in the legal people does make results.
All of this has cost me money, money that I can ill afford to pay. The backdated giro will go towards that cost.
It does seem totally unfair that people who are genuinely ill have to take this drastic action to secure what they are entitled to.
As regards the appeal, the advice given to me is that all of my medical evidence should NOT go to the Decision Maker, but should be kept back until before the appeal hearing when the DWP send their package of evidence. My evidence can then go by exchange. Been told this is because the Decision Maker can go for another ATOS medical, presumably to try and destroy the creditability of my GP, Consultants' and Occupational Health reports!!!!
What a minefield, and we think having the DWP medical is bad!!!!
Thanks

The medical reports we sent were delt with by reconsideration and not appeal, I cant see why yours arnt considered in the same way since you have got got them to sit up and take notice in the same way as we did.

Its totally wrong that sick people have to drag there MPs in to be taken seriously for ESA, its not fit for purpose.

stazi

That's really helpful- denying the DM the opportunity to possibly correct a decision now by withholding some new evidence. No, DM's are not medically trained- they don't need to be, as they are applying the law from the evidence in front of them.

A second DM provided with new evidence, is not bound by the decision of the first DM- that's why the reconsideration process was introduced- to avoid going to appeal if at all possible.

Even if after producing the new evidence, you don't get the decision you want, you can still appeal. Who knows- the DM may now find in your favour- but you won't know if you don't try the reconsideration process.

Need_a_break

Hi, just adding my 2p worth, but it seems that incompetancy is part and parcel of Dwp job description. My dh has some serious mental health issues and the number of times they have messed up (they have admitted fault on numerous occasions) is ludricous and has given him that much stress its making his health worse. I know that they have to make sure all applicants etc are genuine but ive never encountered so many mistakes made by one department in such a short space of time (about 5 months). Its quite worrying that these people have so much power .

Nab

andyandflo

Why on Earth would anyone send medical evidence to DWP decision maker anyway?,They have no medical training.
I have always advised keeping evidence back for a possible appeal.

Hi, just adding my 2p worth, but it seems that incompetancy is part and parcel of Dwp job description. My dh has some serious mental health issues and the number of times they have messed up (they have admitted fault on numerous occasions) is ludricous and has given him that much stress its making his health worse. I know that they have to make sure all applicants etc are genuine but ive never encountered so many mistakes made by one department in such a short space of time (about 5 months). Its quite worrying that these people have so much power

Hi thanks for the posts. Both Noggin & Needabreak have hit the nail on the head. My description of the DWP is 'totally dysfunctional' Yes there does seem to be some good posts, but I'll be guided what my legal eagles suggest. As you point out, the DM's are not medically trained they look at the evidence. If that evidence is written in Medical terms, they will refer to the DM Handbook - list of illnesses. If that does not give them the picture they require, the case is referred back to ATOS, - probably the same guy that assessed me in the first place for an opinion. He is a registered nurse who would not have the faintest of a clue about detailed medical science. So there we are - the blind leading the blind!! As I have been informed, one of the panel at the Tribunal is a 'Doctor' heeyy - someone who should know something and better placed to understand my consultants' reports.
Thanks

andyandflo

Hmmm Stazi - do I detect a supporter of the Decision Maker mark2 ? Don't tell me that you had something to do with the setting up of that strange idea? Would you ask to two bricklayers to make a decision on how to build the Channel Tunnel???

nogginthenog

stazi wrote: »

That's really helpful- denying the DM the opportunity to possibly correct a decision now by withholding some new evidence. No, DM's are not medically trained- they don't need to be, as they are applying the law from the evidence in front of them.

A second DM provided with new evidence, is not bound by the decision of the first DM- that's why the reconsideration process was introduced- to avoid going to appeal if at all possible.

Even if after producing the new evidence, you don't get the decision you want, you can still appeal. Who knows- the DM may now find in your favour- but you won't know if you don't try the reconsideration process.

It is of no use if the DM does not understand the evidence, i should have added Medical evidence
More often than not the ATOS doctor who does the medical will not have the expirience to understand how certain conditions affect the patient/claimant.
And when it comes down to a question of law, its only when the appealant gets to the upper tier of tribunial that law and points of law really comes into question.

stazi

I'm a supporter of getting the right decision in the first place- but 'right' can mean benefit being awarded or disallowed - depending what the law says.

The pupose of a medical for any benefit (ESA/IB/DLA), is not to disprove that someone doesn't have a medical condition- it's to establish how that condition prevents them doing a number of work related tasks (for ESA & IB), and how it affects daily living (for DLA).

A doctor at a tribunal has to follow the same points guidelines as the original ATOS helathcare professional and the JCP DM - they, and the Tribunal, just can't award points left, right and centre - the points system is laid down in law.

Finally, remember that a Tribunal can do one of three things- award more points, keep the same points, and yes, reduce the number of points. I think I recently read that the tribunals service said that about 30% of ESA appeals were successful, which meant that about 70% were not.