Rogue Builders

scoot1on1

Hi there, I have just had my builders walk out on the refurb of my kitchen, I have wrote to Trading Standards, and have included this letter below, I was just wondering if there was anything else that I could do, any ideas would be gratefully received, I thank you in advance for your help.
Just in case any of you are from the Wetherby / North Yorkshire area this so called builder is called Dennis Forrest & Sons , beware.

We contacted the above builders in October 2004 to convert our garage into a kitchen and for the 'old' kitchen to be made into a utility and toilet area. We received an estimate from them in November and were told that completion should be before Christmas 2004.

My partner in the mean time had drew up a detailed diagram of how the kitchen was to look including where windows were to be placed,and where electric sockets and units should be fitted. The builder also had a copy of this diagram to work to.

In the estimate, we were to pay them a cheque for supplying the kitchen units which they said cost £1075 from the supplier, we did not get a receipt for this.

Just before work commenced he noticed that we would need a new manhole where the new toilet was to be fitted and we also asked him if he could brick up an old existing door at the same time, no price was agreed on for this work at the time, and when we continually asked him for a price for this work we were told that he was busy doing other estimates and he would let us know.
He later came back to us and said that the materials for the manhole had cost him £100.

Work started in November 2004 and the first major problem which arose was the fitting of a window to the front of the new kitchen. I arrived home from work one afternoon to see the window frame had been fitted, and to be told that we hadnt taken into consideration the size of the units, so when the top units were fitted you would see the side of the units through the window, I asked him to show me the plan and it clearly showed that the window had in fact been fitted in the wrong place by him, but instead of getting a new window he sawed the old window frame in half and refitted it, as the windows have a vent in them this was also sawn through making the vent unuseable so it cant be closed, it has just come to my attention that we were charged an extra £240 for a refit. Again we paid £221 cash for the window frames with no receipt.

As we were now in December we were having doubts that this kitchen was going to be finished for Christmas and our fears were confirmed when we were told that he couldn't get a plasterer to plaster the ceiling and walls until the New Year, so in between they decided to start on the electrics and the bricking up of the old door. When we went to the freezer on Xmas Eve we found that it had been defrosted and the food had been refrozen, when told about this they said the electrics must have tripped and it was nothing to do with them, even though we had no problems with electric tripping before they had started work on them.

Next was the door which was to be bricked up, when my partner and I saw the workmanship or should I say lack of it we decided to go over the kitchen and look for any defects which had been hidden behind dust sheets. We came across lots of problems including kitchen units chipped, kitchen units balanced on wooden blocks, extractor fan hose ripped, bad plastering, electrical sockets not level, and an electrical cable which had been sawn through with a still saw.

We rang the builder up and had a meeting with him to voice our concerns, we walked around the property and he wrote everything down and said it would be rectified, he still couldn't give us a finishing date we were now in the second week of January.
Works progressed and most of our concerns were rectified except the sawn electrical cable, replastering of ceiling and one of our units is now balanced on bits of tile as the legs had been cut off to short.

I again went outside to inspect the rebuilt bricked up door to find that the workmanship had still not got any better, and the top eight courses of bricks were bowing out and were not straight, but I decided to leave that problem for the time being to give them some extra time to try and complete the inside of our house.

We were then on the 20th January given a hand written bill for 'extras' we had requested for works that hadnt been included on the first estimate we received. These 'extras' included some ludicrously high prices for labour and also a bill for £324.48 for materials for the manhole cover.
I then asked his son Nick(building partner) how could the price of materials go from the previous stated £100 to over treble that, he said that he wasn't sure but he thought that the prices were very high, and he only wrote down what his father told him to write.

I asked him if we could have the receipts for all the materials that we had bought, including the manhole materials the window frame and the kitchen units, he said this wouldn't be a problem.
However half an hour later his father arrived wanting to know why I wanted to see the receipts, I said I wanted to see them to see how much we had spent on the materials, to which he replied he wasnt going through wads of receipts to find them, when I insisted I wanted to see them he said "right thats it were off" and both him and his son collected there tools and walked off the site.

His son has since been in touch and said he had looked through the bill and had already saved us £80, that is the last we have heard.

We are now left with a kitchen which is only half finished and a lot of the parts that looked finished will have to be redone ie brickwork, plaster work and checking the wiring.
We have paid out £6069 so far to this builder with the original estimate being £7440.21.
We have since contacted a friend who is an electrician by trade to just have a quick look around for us and he was flabbergasted by what he saw, electrical wires joined with bullet clips etc, and he said the work was carried out by amateurs, he is getting other tradesmen who are qualified in their own respective fields to give us a price to re do the work.
I would be grateful if you could contact me and let me know if there is anyway of recouping any losses alreay paid out to this so called builder, or if there is a way of stopping him from doing this to someone else, he is a member of the FSB but im not sure if they can do anything.

I look forward to your response

Yours Faithfully
Jon Wilson


What I havent included in this letter was the fact that we paid £1075 cash for kitchen cupboards, but when a builder friend priced these up from the same supplier he could get them for £674.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Jon

g33za

Hello, i'm very sorry to hear of your troubles with the builder, did you have a signed contract?

If so you may be able to take the builder to the small claims court for breach of contract. You may also be able to do this if you had a verbal contract although im not 100% sure. Witnesses will be important.

It will be worth your while to get written estimates for any work that is of poor workmanship if you do go to court.

I suspect you will need to look into going via the court in order to recoup any losses and to cover future work. Be sure you prepare a good case and if possible document everything you can remember and date in order also in regards to dates you met with the builder and what was discussed.

It may also help to let the builder know your intentions and might make him more willing to complete the work.

HTH

scoot1on1

Hi G33za
Unfortunately I dont have a written contract, and a lot of the money paid for jobs that we thought had been finished had been paid for by cash, it just seems so obvious to me now, after documenting everything, you think to yourself how could I have been so stupid, but he seemed very plausible and had an answer for everything except where receipts are concerned, any further replies still very grateful.

Jon

g33za

Its quite common thing to pay cash in hand (and save money), at least you could perhaps report him to the inland revenue for not paying tax on it etc.. probably better to seek legal advice in regards to this.

Go to your local (cab) Citizens Advice Bureaux http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/.

I would also suggest taking photos of the poor workmanship as evidence for and claim you might put through the small claims court. I've read that its a straightforward process and doesnt cost that much search on google.. certainly the money you've paid already is a lot so it might be worth your while.

robowen

I'm not surprised he wouldn't give you the receipts.
And I do sympathise with your situation.

As a tradesman myself(a plumber), I give a quote for the labour and the materials seperately. I always add a percentage on top of the mats, because sometimes fittings dont work, or solder properly, or something will arise where you need something extra.
I dont want to be constantly going to the customer to ask for more money, because they will always say " well you quoted this and that... so tough !"
It saves a lot of questions and answers later, and gives me a bit of leeway if the customer asks for a change in the plans. I can be more co-operative.

I won't give receipts for anything, as I have to present them to the taxman.

scoot1on1

thanks for the replies, I do understand what you are saying Rob but we had been told by him these materials cost him £100, all I wanted was to see the receipt, I have no problems with a percentage being added to this, as travel etc has to be included, but £300 extra, we have found out he done this with ordering the kitchen units for us also. He said the units cost him £1074 and he was making no money on them , these units are prebuilt, when a friendly builder friend of ours checked these prices in the same trade only store he was able to get them £400 cheaper, I just wanted to see the receipt, not keep it or complain about an extra £20-30, but £400 is takin the p1ss, for somthing that was delivered so no travel expenses incurred. Anyhow things are developing now and have got Trading standards involved along with a chartered surveyor and building control coming in to check his work to date.
He's picked the wrong guy to try and swindle this time. I just feel for some poor old person who doesn't know how much things are etc. people like this should be named and shamed with their photo in the local newspaper.

rant over

robowen

I totally agree with you. Good luck with your complaint.

[Deleted User]

The work you are having done sounds similar to mine which is now 2 weeks in.

You make no mention of having applied for and been granted Building Regs - and as your work sounds like mine - it is illegal not to have Building Regs.

As well as Building Regs - if you are having new drainage put in below ground - this will also have to be inspected by the local authority.

The building inspector is appointed by the local council. YOU pay the local council a compulsory fee for the inspections at each stage of the work. He will only be appointed once the plans are approved.

My inspector has been out twice so far - if he's not happy the builders have to do it again - at THEIR expense. The building inspector is a vital person you cannot leave out - and not only does he ensure the footings and that each stage of the building is safe - it also ensures it is legal - for which you get a certificate at the end. (You need to keep this in case you sell the house on).

Hopefully, your builder is a member of the FMB - Federation of Master Builders. They have an arbitration scheme and can appoint another builder to finish the work.

Despite my asking the question on another thread on this site about - what is the point of purchasing Masterbond Warranty when I already have building insurance - I got no replies - so decided to buy it anyway. If you get the option with whoever finishes your work - it may be worth you doing the same - it gives you 10 years structural cover and other things.

You seem to have two issues here as far as I can see.

A rogue builder who has disappeared with your money - and possibly building work which has not been sanctioned by the council and for which you may have to start again with proper plans approved by the council.

Do not confuse this with planning permission - which is different and mainly concerns the way a building looks.

You work may also affect your neighbour - for which the Party Wall Act may apply. The work does not have to be on a party wall - but only has be within 6 metres of it. It is further confused if your footings come within a certain distance of theirs.

You need to get URGENT advice regarding the legality of the work carried out so far BEFORE you spend any more money. I suggest you contact your local council without delay in this respect. Building regs can still be granted if they are happy with your plans - but they will need to inspect the work.

Of course - if you have already applied for and been granted Building Regs - then please ignore my post.

good luck

whosforachat

Isn't there some rogue traders web site for black listing people like these?

misgrace

Read this post, she has very similar problems to you, might give you some ideas.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=547603