Unenforceability & Template Letters III

never-in-doubt

DebtFreeOneDay wrote: »

Do I now take it on to FOS or ignore them as I have sent my final response? As always your help is very much appreciated. :hello:

Hiya

You just ignore them now. See what happens

never-in-doubt

elsie52 wrote: »

We have today received a letter from Marbles....

Hiya,

Send this back to Marbles - see what they say!

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

I write with reference to previous correspondence, and in particular to your most recent letter dated xx/xx/2010.

First of all i'd like to spend a few moments clarifying the finer points of your response. You start by trying to lead me to believe that because your client always ensured people signed an agreement prior to issuing credit, that I automatically must be included in that? Unfortunately for you, this does not stand up in court and we both know full well that s.127(3) of the CCA(1974) is quite clear in what is required to enforce a debt - your clients say-so means nothing, like my verbal say-so would mean nothing in court if I tried to accuse you of owing me money.

You then, rather amusingly go on to say, and i'll quote;

"We are satisfied the terms and conditions of the agreement were on the reverse of the application form, therefore you had sight of these details when you signed and accepted the terms."

Please could you be so kind as to either learn about the provisions of the CCA(1974) or furnish me with a copy of any guidance that stipulates you can make assumptions based on a third party say-so? I'd love to see a copy of any guidance, moreso because we both know full well that this statement is absolute nonsense.

Please do us both a favour, and stop wasting my time, thus your own time by having to deal with my responses. I expect to receive a fully compliant CCA for the above numbered account which, for ease and clarity, I hereby deem unenforceable in line with s.127(3) CCA(1974) and this letter is my final response on the matter.

In my original letter, dated XX/XX/XXXX, I requested a copy of the credit agreement to which I genuinely expected to receive an exact copy of that which you hold in your records i.e. an actual photocopy of the agreement which is allegedly signed by myself and your representative.

To date, no agreement has been sent and as a result this account is unenforceable in line with s.127(3) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Whilst I appreciate that under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 you are able to omit a signature and date box from a copy, I don't somehow think you are allowed to simply not respond / respond with junk? Therefore my original request remains outstanding as I would like to hold in my records an exact copy of the document that you hold. I do not want a piece of paper that alludes to there being an agreement; I would like a photocopy of the actual agreement.

I do not think it is a lot to ask for you to simply go and fetch the original agreement, photocopy it and pop it in an envelope to me. The only reason that I can presume avoidance of such a simple process is if you do not actually hold a copy of the original agreement in which case may I remind you that OFT Guidance clearly states that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:

• hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
• providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones

In order to be able to adjudge my position effectively I require a copy of the actual agreement that apparently exists and I therefore appeal to you to fulfil my request. I am willing to pay any reasonable charge that you feel is necessary, in order to provide a copy of the “actual” credit agreement. In considering my request, I ask that you take a common sense approach and do not hold to the line that you have provided all that is expected of you nor the recent test case in Manchester, namely, and to be known as: Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009).

I make my request in good faith and I feel it is a nonsense approach to hold to the idea that you won’t provide this document because you simply don’t have to. I feel that would take advantage of your position and such an approach from your business not be in the best interests of a healthy business/client relationship. In light of the above, I consider this account to be unenforceable until such time you properly comply with my original s.78 request and send a photocopy of the original purported document, if it exists. If it does not, then you must confirm this to me in line with your licensing guidance, as detailed above.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of OFT guidelines. These guidelines (issued July 2003 & updated December 2006) relate to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place; irrespective, unless you do supply a copy of the original agreement I will not correspond with you again and any threats will be averred and unlawful and vexatious with a counter-claim forthcoming.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally

Slickfm

In response to the superb 'wording' above!

Go Niddy, Go Niddy, Goooooooo:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T

elsie52

Slickfm wrote: »

In response to the superb 'wording' above!

Go Niddy, Go Niddy, Goooooooo:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Thanks Niddy

Mateusrojo

never-in-doubt wrote: »

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LOL - they always say that mate - from what you've stated yea, send the final response to them now.



Hold fire - i'll do you a reply to send them now.... idiots! :mad: :mad:

Hi NID

It has been quite a while since I posted but just wanted to bring you up to date from the above and what is/has happened with my other accounts. Should be devoting more time to this perhaps but got a little bogged down with other aspects of life!

If you need a reference in addition to above my original post was #1035 (Page 52)

I would appreciate your advice on the outline of my situation below. My intention is to keep ignoring phone calls – but how long does it normally take for them to give up on this?

Barclaycard number 2:

Sent final response (7/4/10)- since then have had back a very short letter stating
"I write further to your recent letter alleging that we have failed too comply with our obligations in relation to your request for documents pursuant to Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act

Please note that we have already set out, in detail, why wer are satisfied that the documents already provided to you to you have discharged obligations under the Act. We are under no legal obligation to provide any further documentation to you in this regard"

Now had a letter and lots and lots of calls from Mercer.

Marks and spencer: Following your stunning letter (written after the above) I have received the following:
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy290/mateusrojo/MandS/page0001.jpg

Would appreciate your thoughts but sadly think it enforceable?

Barclaycard 1

Have never received anything relating to this account from them had sent the follow up request (15/03/10)and now about to send CCA dispute

Sainsbury:

Had sent a one sheet signed application form to me - stapled to it was an extract of some terms but nothing linking one to the other -

I sent CCA dispute and received a lengthy letter in return – do you need to see this or should I just ignore everything because I have sent the CCA dispute

Albion collections have been in touch by letter.

MBNA/Virgin

Sent template 3.1 re their illegible copy – nothing returned – getting some phone calls from MBNA.

About to send CCA dispute letter

Egg

I now have their copy of the agreement – (have my own copy) on this forum you have already been identified this version as flawed. You had previously said to send CCA query but somehow I missed doing this – will I go ahead with this or should I now just sent the CCA dispute letter?

Getting calls from Egg

Cap1

Had sent CCA dispute to them as they had only sent sent a typed agreement/application form page – (you determined this was only an agreement post # 681 and #855)

Have received a further letter the essence of which is that they have complied and will continue to pursue action to reclaim debt. However nothing since by way of phone calls or letters.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help

ashmuir

Hey Niddy and all,

Been a while since I posted as i've been out of the country for 4 weeks. I've come back today to a reply to my CCA request from the DCA saying the following:

I write in reference to your letter dated 10th April 2010.

Unfortunately, Barclaycard is unable to supply me with a copy of the original agreement or bank statements and I must apologise for any inconvenience caused.

You will find enclosed a cheque in the sum of £1.00 as reimbursement.

What should my next step be?

Cheers,

Ash

BigCraigJohn

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Don't worry, COLOR=Green][B]Zzzz[/B][/COLOR is because the account is in query - it will change soon enough :eek:

Your wish for a COLOR=Red][B]D[/B][/COLOR will be met soon enough :rotfl:

In the post today. "Statement of Default" account terminated etc

Cap 1 letters are like buses. Nothing for 2 months then 3 in a week

Tell you whats really funny. Ive had an email to an email address which ive never given them telling me my statement is ready to view. Online account is blocked anyway and no paper statements since september. doh

never-in-doubt

ashmuir wrote: »

What should my next step be?

Cheers,

Ash

Hiya Ash

Its unenforceable - leave it. Forget it, let me know if they write again in the future :D

BorassicLint

dibs69 wrote: »

same letters but no final response or cca

Hi dibs,

I haven't had a CCA either just t&c's but they have been very quick in replying to my letters, let's see what happens after I send the final response letter!

Lyndzzz wrote: »

Borassic - there are a few of us now ignoring LTSB so join the club for the long 6 year wait and heres hoping they never find our CCA's:cool:

Hi Lyndzzz,

LTSB have been a right pain from the off so I hope they never find anyone's CCA - and if they do they are all unenforceable - 5 years 363 days and counting:)

ashmuir

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya Ash

Its unenforceable - leave it. Forget it, let me know if they write again in the future :D

Woo thanks a lot Nid, that was easier than anticipated!

Ash