Unenforceability & Template Letters III

never-in-doubt

*Pollypocket* wrote: »

I sent them the Debtors Final Response - CCA Received on the 22nd March as advised by Niddy . Here is the link: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=30981327&postcount=837 Sorry, I haven't worked out how to do it properly yet. Anyway, according to the Royal Mail tracker they have received the letter but I haven't heard a thing yet, no phonecalls, nothing :think:

Thank you very, very much again!

Hiya

They cannot obtain a CCJ - a default is the last that they can do - that's it, just ignore them... :D

never-in-doubt

*Pollypocket* wrote: »

Thank you for your help. I'm feeling surprisingly calm about the whole thing now, thanks to Niddy's thread :T

Be calm - you've already won - you just don't realise it yet! hehe :p

shed_head_2

Nid and 10past6, Thank you both for looking at this for me. Its the first time in my life I have been physically sick with fear. I am feeling a little calmer now.

Shed

10past6

shed_head wrote: »

Nid and 10past6, Thank you both for looking at this for me. Its the first time in my life I have been physically sick with fear. I am feeling a little calmer now

You'll be fine honestly, this is a financial debt only, you're not going to end up in prison so try not to worry to much.

I need you to go through all your correspondence and see if you have a letter headed default notice, (it's in your interest you double check) it may be the letter you mention seeking payment in full.

Also, within the court paper wok you've received, you'll have been issued with a log in & password details, can you confirm you have them?

I'll be back later tomorrow to give you further guidance.

Stay calm, you'll be OK

handyman123_2

Shed head, you will be ok, you have people like niddy and 10past6 on your side.
I hope they realise how many people they have helped. I was a lurker for months before I joined MSE. I wont tell you how scared I was. I would rather have been sent back to irac than face the bailiffs that I thought were going to come for me. I came out of the shadows because I feel I owe a Big Debt (no pun intended) of thanks to all on this forum.

If I can leave you with one thought, THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR - ONLY FEAR ITS SELF.

Best wishes handyman123.

BigCraigJohn

thechippy wrote: »

Generally it goes to an in house collection dept first and if they have no luck, onto the dca merry go round. It's not that common for the oc to begin litigation, as they feel it puts them in a "bad light". They would rather sell the debt to a dca and let them do it.

To add...

Leave this in nid's capable hands. The lack of a compliant cca can delay litigation for a year or two sometimes, or even indefinately. Even if they do litigate eventually, they still need to produce a compliant original agreement at the hearing.

1 thing that gets me. Say a certain credit card either didnt keep or only had naff agreements, would this affect the price they would be able to sell a debt for? ie if you had an agreement you could go to court with, that would surely be worth than if they had lost it and all they could get was via phone/post pressure.

Rainbow_Liberty

Sorry to join the long queue of people needing your help NID but I have only had one response so far after sending your initial template letter out recently despite having sent the same letter to everybody I have outstanding debt with.

Barclaycard Visa aprx £3,500
Barclaycard Mastercard aprx £4,000
Barclays Masterloan aprx £17,000
Egg Loan aprx £8,000
Egg Card aprx £4,000

Robinson Way Ltd £200

Robinson Way I believe is actually a debt collecting agency and considering their debt is the least of all the amounts that I owe they are the one that correspond with me the most.

Going back around 8 years or so I contacted everybody and did a financial report showing that I had a total of £5.11 disposable income at the end of every month. The bigger debts agreed to take £1 a month and Robinson Way gets 11p. It's been like this for years and I have everything set as a standing order so that I can't possibly miss the payments.

The letter is as follows

"ROBINSON WAY LIMITED

Further to your recent request, we have been unable to obtain a copy of the agreement from the original creditor. This does not mean that the debt does not exist or that we are not entitled to pursue you for the sums outstanding.

We therefore request your repayment proposals within the next 10 days. Alternatively we may be able to offer you a substantial reduction on the balance to clear your liability.

Please note that it is in your interest to clear this debt as soon as possible; we are require to reflect the account status with the credit reference agencies, where appropriate.

Yours sincerely

Debt Purchase Correspondence Manager"

Where do I go next please.......

Many many thanks

never-in-doubt

BigCraigJohn wrote: »

1 thing that gets me. Say a certain credit card either didnt keep or only had naff agreements, would this affect the price they would be able to sell a debt for? ie if you had an agreement you could go to court with, that would surely be worth than if they had lost it and all they could get was via phone/post pressure.

At the moment it doesn't work like that, when a lender sells debt - it is usually done monthly and in bulk, they wouldn't sit there and haggle the basics - it is a risk game, for all parties in essence.

So say you have an account with Barclays, chances are there will be 100's of others like you, each month that couldn't pay - so they would have a total figure of debt outstanding, lets say £100k, they would then sell this as a business loss (tax deductable) to a DCA for between £6k and £20k. So, taking that into account, say one of the debtors owed £24k and they actually paid this to the DCA - the DCA can then afford to write off all the other hundreds of accounts cos they have already made profit on the one debt.

The above is a blanket way of looking at things, but that is pretty much how it works so you can see, they are always quids in....

You may find the DCA's have an agreement in place (lately) that UE debts will be returned to the OC and swapped with a more legitimate debt. This part i'm unsure of, but either way - the DCA is usually the ones that you can haggle with as they have nothing to lose really, after all the most they will pay for a debt is around 30% TOPS!

never-in-doubt

handyman123 wrote: »

Shed head, you will be ok, you have people like niddy and 10past6 on your side.
I hope they realise how many people they have helped.

Hi Handy - aaaw thanks for your nice message....

Each time we see you guys get a letter confirming things have went your way, or even cessation of harassment, we know we're doing some good.

But thanks, i'm sure 10past6 will agree with what i'm saying... we do not want recognition, just to see you guys come out on top and being able to enjoy life again.

Final point, poor lenders must hate it when they know you've got us on your side :rotfl: :rotfl:

never-in-doubt

mheymans wrote: »

Sorry to join the long queue of people needing your help NID but I have only had one response so far after sending your initial template letter out recently despite having sent the same letter to everybody I have outstanding debt with.

That's fine they can be slow, give it a month then send the CCA Dispute letter - no need to chase it with reminders..... have you sent recorded delivery and do you have proof of postage, i.e. have the letters all been signed for?

mheymans wrote: »

Barclaycard Visa aprx £3,500
Barclaycard Mastercard aprx £4,000
Barclays Masterloan aprx £17,000
Egg Loan aprx £8,000
Egg Card aprx £4,000
Robinson Way Ltd £200

Regards to the above, are all the accounts over 8 years old? Can you confirm the last FULL payment you made on each of them and also the time (approx) that you took the accounts out? Also, i'm assuming your credit file is trashed with A/P markers (arrangement to pay)..>? You realise you will get several defaults if you follow this route, right?

mheymans wrote: »

Robinson Way I believe is actually a debt collecting agency and considering their debt is the least of all the amounts that I owe they are the one that correspond with me the most.

Stop corresponding from today - this is unenforceable and so you now respond with the letter below and cease any payment to them, do not speak to them and do not write anything else to them until you've ran it past us on here - yea?

Payments cease - today! Deal

mheymans wrote: »

Going back around 8 years or so I contacted everybody and did a financial report showing that I had a total of £5.11 disposable income at the end of every month. The bigger debts agreed to take £1 a month and Robinson Way gets 11p. It's been like this for years and I have everything set as a standing order so that I can't possibly miss the payments.

Log on to internet banking whatever - cancel payments.

mheymans wrote: »

Further to your recent request, we have been unable to obtain a copy of the agreement from the original creditor. This does not mean that the debt does not exist or that we are not entitled to pursue you for the sums outstanding. We therefore request your repayment proposals within the next 10 days. Alternatively we may be able to offer you a substantial reduction on the balance to clear your liability.

Please note that it is in your interest to clear this debt as soon as possible; we are require to reflect the account status with the credit reference agencies, where appropriate.

Send the reply below, to them! Read it and you'll see where they have made mistakes - basically they are typically, talking !!!!!! (again) lol :rotfl:

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. On XX/XX/XXXX I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77-s.79). A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such you are now in default and this account has become unenforceable. The document that you were obliged to send was a true copy of the executed agreement that contains the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in s.61(1) of the CCA(1974) and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore; you should be aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 (+2) days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired and as such, as you are no doubt aware s.77(6) states:

"If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law"

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested, any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful & vexatious. Furthermore I shall counter-claim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. You may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under s.10 of the Data Protection Act (1998) to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Any attempted argument regarding case law such as McGuffick v RBS will be dismissed as this particular case has no bearing on the legal reporting methods that a lender has with the CRA, namely adding derogatory data whilst an account is in dispute, this account clearly is disputed. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 30 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 30 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Need I remind you that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute? The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 30 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you, in writing within 30 days.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally