Help with incorrect deductions on salary

dori2o

My wifes employer has changed the way they do their salary, it is still monthly pay but now instead of being paid for the last 4 weeks worked, it is now 2 weeks infront and 2 weeks behind. But.. they have messed up. They have paid the 2 weeks behind fine and all overtime correct, but the 2 weeks infront is wrong. They have shown the 2 weeks in front as an advance but only put the net value on the payslip under income coming in, but then taxed it again as part of the whole monthly gross.

i.e. 2 weeks wages gross is £100, they have shown £80 on the gross income side of the payslip,then taxed the £80 as part of the months total gross income, so the £100 has been taxed twice.

We have explained this to the manager but he insists that there pay is correct and is refusing to speak to payroll. My wife asked for the telephone number of the payroll department in order to call them and sort it out, but the manager, and my colleagues who have been there longer than me, have said only managers are allowed to contact personnel and payroll.

1. Doesn't the manager have a duty of care in this case?

2. Can the comnpany refuse to let employees speak to payroll?

What should she be doing now?

Thanks

jdturk

Speak to ACAS and I would guess they would suggest you raise a grievance on the basis that you do not understand their calculations and the manager will not allow you to find an explanation.

fengirl_2

HMRC are the people who oversee tax, etc deductions, so she needs to contact them. Don't ring the office dealing with her affairs, but ring the employers helpline - they can get a complinace officer to visit.

SandP_2

I would suggest that initially your wife politely details her concerns (and any calculations, etc) and emails them to her manager, asking the manager to investigate the situation with the Payroll and/or Personnel department. This probably duplicates any conversations already held but gives you an electronic papertrail (if email isn't available do this in writing, dating the letter and keeping a copy). Line managers tend to have a much better focus on problems once they are put in writing.

If no reply comes back within 3-4 days I would send a further email/letter requesting progress and asking for details of the company's Grievance procedure.

Any replies received verbally (e.g. 'Don't trouble me everything's ok', etc) I would follow up with an email/letter ("Thank you for advising me that.........however..........", etc) to keep the paper trail.

Normally this sort of approach will work. (Personal experience, based on working for far too long in Personnel/HR!)

If not it should be addressed through the raising of a Grievance. If things go this far I would suggest a call to ACAS (08457 47 47 47 - all calls confidential) to discuss the situation. The level of pay and method of payment is a contractual issue and should be easily understood/queried by all involved.

Hope this helps.

Newbiesw

dori2o wrote: »

My wifes employer has changed the way they do their salary, it is still monthly pay but now instead of being paid for the last 4 weeks worked, it is now 2 weeks infront and 2 weeks behind. But.. they have messed up. They have paid the 2 weeks behind fine and all overtime correct, but the 2 weeks infront is wrong. They have shown the 2 weeks in front as an advance but only put the net value on the payslip under income coming in, but then taxed it again as part of the whole monthly gross.
i.e. 2 weeks wages gross is £100, they have shown £80 on the gross income side of the payslip,then taxed the £80 as part of the months total gross income, so the £100 has been taxed twice.

What was the total gross pay on the first payslip with the new pay system?
Have the pay dates changed with the new system?
If your wife is paid every 4 weeks, and still paid every 4 weeks (but on a different date now) the gross pay should still be £200 (2 weeks gross @ £100).
I can't understand why you mention only £100 (2 weeks pay).
I'm guessing this is the first payslip under the new method and may be a one-off calculation to bring your payments into line before the transition of paying you 2 weeks in advance ?
Did your wife/the employees receive an advance of maybe £80 before the changeover?

Newbiesw

dori2o

OK, I've been to my wifes work and she's given me the payslip and a letter that came with it, now I can better understand.

She has been paid for the period 1st Feb to 15th Feb and any overtime that came in that period.

Previously she was paid for the period 1st of the month to 30th/31st of the month

She has also been given a NET payment of 2 weeks salary, i.e 2 weeks salary less basic rate tax.

Next month she will get paid for the period 16th Feb til 15th March to be paid last working day of the month as now.

Everyone has been paid this NET advance, but my wife does not pay tax, her annual salary is only £5500.

Has the employer worked this out correctly? Should they have given a NET advance when my wife pays no tax.

The leter she has states that if she leaves the employment she will have to repay the advance.

Any help appreciated.

fengirl_2

I understand what has happened now. The tax tables which are used to calcualte the tax and NI due on employees' wages allocate one twelthm of the tax free allowance each month. You only get one twelth each month. Therefore, because her tax free allowance for Feb was used against her pay for the first 2 weeks, there is no allowance available for the other payment. This will correect itslef next month.

Newbiesw

Newbiesw wrote: »

I'm guessing this is the first payslip under the new method and may be a one-off calculation to bring your payments into line before the transition of paying you 2 weeks in advance ?
Did your wife/the employees receive an advance of maybe £80 before the changeover?
Newbiesw

Just as I suspected, its bringing you in line before the new pay regime otherwise there could have been the likelihood in some cases that you would have to wait six weeks before your next pay day, the net pay advance was to see you through this as its unreasonable.
I assume they have quickly worked out a rough estimate on 2 weeks pay allowing for PAYE deductions but not allowing for those that weren't due to pay any tax (this saves time rather working them all out to the penny!)
When your wife's first payment takes effect on the full 4 weeks pay (March), you should see any tax refunded automatically as her taxable income will still be under the taxable limit.

Newbiesw

dori2o

Newbiesw wrote: »

Just as I suspected, its bringing you in line before the new pay regime otherwise there could have been the likelihood in some cases that you would have to wait six weeks before your next pay day, the net pay advance was to see you through this as its unreasonable.
I assume they have quickly worked out a rough estimate on 2 weeks pay allowing for PAYE deductions but not allowing for those that weren't due to pay any tax (this saves time rather working them all out to the penny!)
When your wife's first payment takes effect on the full 4 weeks pay (March), you should see any tax refunded automatically as her taxable income will still be under the taxable limit.

Newbiesw

The only thing is the net payment and the tax deducted on this amount is not taken into account in the total pay and deductions to date box. They have simply paid the net amount and not recorded the amount of the payment or the tax deducted on it anywhere.

fengirl wrote: »

I understand what has happened now. The tax tables which are used to calcualte the tax and NI due on employees' wages allocate one twelthm of the tax free allowance each month. You only get one twelth each month. Therefore, because her tax free allowance for Feb was used against her pay for the first 2 weeks, there is no allowance available for the other payment. This will correect itslef next month.

Thats not the case Fengirl, the 2 weeks salary and the overtime totaled less than £200, so there's £339 other allowances to be used.

Newbiesw

dori2o wrote: »

The only thing is the net payment and the tax deducted on this amount is not taken into account in the total pay and deductions to date box. They have simply paid the net amount and not recorded the amount of the payment or the tax deducted on it anywhere.

No, I wouldn't worry about this until next month when it should "all come out in the wash".
Without knowing all the facts, it appears they have advanced you all a sub or an advance on next months first new, full month payslip to prevent you having to wait six weeks until your next payday.
When they process your March payslip, you may see the four weeks for 2 weeks end Feb and 2 weeks beginning March PLUS the 2 weeks for the beginning of February, the net pay should be calculated on this six weeks pay but the £80 should be a deduction to stop you getting that again in March's pay as you have already had it up front as a sub.
This is just a transition period, hold on until the March payslip and if it doesn't all "come out in the wash" as I suspect it will, then kick some a***!

Newbiesw

dori2o

OK I've spoken to the manager today on my wifes behalf, here's what the score is.

Payroll system has changed, not to 2weeks before 2 weeks after, but to15th of one month to 14th of the next, so in January my wife was paid for the period 1st January to 31st January paid on last working day in January.

February wife has been paid for 1st Feb to 14th Feb including any overtime in that period, and has been given an advance, or loan, of 2 weeks salary which has been paid to her net of basic rate tax. Again the payment is and will stay as paid on the last working day of the month.

This loan will only be collected back by the company if either she leaves the employment, or, becomes a salaried member of staff, i.e. becomes a store manager.
It will not be collected from next salary

In march she will be paid for the period 15th Feb to 14th March.

Now I understand why they have given her this loan so she can see it through the month till next pay day. But they have deducted tax on this money and my wife is a non taxpayer. (they have paid 2 weeks salary as a loan NET of basic rate tax)

The advance/loan is not included in the TOTAL PAY TO DATE/TOTAL TAX PAID TO DATE section of her salary slip, so the tax she has 'paid' will not copme back automatically in her salary next month.

Manager says that as it is a loan my wife cannot contest the amount and the company didn't actually have to give them a loan to cover the change in the payroll system.