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Trouble with the Freeholder
nsabournemouth
Posts: 2,042 Forumite
We live in what was a house but has been converted to 2 flats. The Freeholder has the bottom flat and also a Granny annex on the back of the bottom flat.
The freeholders are not very good at dealing with other people and they are rude, often try to bully us and have had problems with everyone who has had the upper flat..
My GF Dad owns the upper flat and we rent it from them and the Freeholders try and stop us from parking on the drive, even said that if we parked there we would have our cars clamped. They also said they are going to look at getting us in trouble for having foreign students as it is sub letting. We have looked at the lease and they are talking out of their backsides but always try and find reasons to have a go at us.
The latest one is telling the Police we are intercepting post to the granny annex and the lower flat. They have always had friends or family in both flats so i assume to keep a hold on it so they dont have to sell it.
When the post comes i sort through mine and the GF and leave the rest in the porch area. Sometimes the post is not collected by the girl in the granny annex for a good week so it does build up and we will do the nice thing and put it through her door. A while ago the freeholders daughter didn't get her final water bill as it was left sat in the porch but accused us of taking it and putting it back a week or so later. Now it has got to the point where the Police have been round advising us that they have had a complaint of post being intercepted by someone and telling me of the fact i could be arrested if found to be doing as accused. The Police say that she gets no post for a week and then all of a sudden lots are put through her door. What she fails to understand is that because she doesn't knock on the door it builds up and then we stick it all through for he. The girl in the granny annex is friends of the freeholder and i think they are putting it in her head to try and cause trouble. One thing with the post is that it is addressed to us. If you do a postcode search on our postcode and building number it comes up with upper or lower and the flat she is in hasn't got an official address as it is not registered as a dwelling, even the council don't have records of it being there and planning was refused to turn it into a flat but the freeholder has done so. We get knocks on the door for her from a pizza to a taxi and even the Policeman who came round knocked on our door asking for the girl concerned and the GF directed him to her door.
How should i handle this as the GF Dad doesn't want the hassle of dealing with these people as they cause so many problems when they get bored.
These people don't listen to the nice and polite way of doing things so should i play fire with fire?
The freeholders are not very good at dealing with other people and they are rude, often try to bully us and have had problems with everyone who has had the upper flat..
My GF Dad owns the upper flat and we rent it from them and the Freeholders try and stop us from parking on the drive, even said that if we parked there we would have our cars clamped. They also said they are going to look at getting us in trouble for having foreign students as it is sub letting. We have looked at the lease and they are talking out of their backsides but always try and find reasons to have a go at us.
The latest one is telling the Police we are intercepting post to the granny annex and the lower flat. They have always had friends or family in both flats so i assume to keep a hold on it so they dont have to sell it.
When the post comes i sort through mine and the GF and leave the rest in the porch area. Sometimes the post is not collected by the girl in the granny annex for a good week so it does build up and we will do the nice thing and put it through her door. A while ago the freeholders daughter didn't get her final water bill as it was left sat in the porch but accused us of taking it and putting it back a week or so later. Now it has got to the point where the Police have been round advising us that they have had a complaint of post being intercepted by someone and telling me of the fact i could be arrested if found to be doing as accused. The Police say that she gets no post for a week and then all of a sudden lots are put through her door. What she fails to understand is that because she doesn't knock on the door it builds up and then we stick it all through for he. The girl in the granny annex is friends of the freeholder and i think they are putting it in her head to try and cause trouble. One thing with the post is that it is addressed to us. If you do a postcode search on our postcode and building number it comes up with upper or lower and the flat she is in hasn't got an official address as it is not registered as a dwelling, even the council don't have records of it being there and planning was refused to turn it into a flat but the freeholder has done so. We get knocks on the door for her from a pizza to a taxi and even the Policeman who came round knocked on our door asking for the girl concerned and the GF directed him to her door.
How should i handle this as the GF Dad doesn't want the hassle of dealing with these people as they cause so many problems when they get bored.
These people don't listen to the nice and polite way of doing things so should i play fire with fire?
0
Comments
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Inform the planning depatment and get them to take enforcement action regarding the unauthorised conversion. The freeholder won't be told who reported them.
Can the occupant of the annexe get their post without knocking on your door? If not, I'd just put the post through her letter box every day, for a quiet life.
Your GF's father should go back to the police and make a statement about what happens to the post, just to get it on record. I really can't beleive this is a high priority for them!0 -
Hi seabright. Confused: I see nothing in the OP indicating an "unauthorised conversion." Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. OK may be worth checking by a visit to the Planning Dept, but there could easily be permission.
I disagree re the post too. I wouldn't touch it. Since the OP has had a police warning (they'd never get proof by the way so don't worry) stop 'being helpful' by putting it through her door. Just leave it in the porch. Not your post not your problem.
If you see the girl, and want to keep relations good, just explain the police have advised you not to move the post so you no longer feel able to help her out.
I agree about the statement - on the record.
As for the parking - check your lease. Does the lease show the drive on the Plans? Does it say anything about the drive?
Pizzas etc? well, if you want to try and keep friendly, direct them round to the annexe. If you're fed up and don't care, just say "wrong address" and close the door.
Longer term though I'd advise selling. If there's ever a problem with the building (eg roof needs fixing), and you have to negotiate with the freeholder....it'll be a nightmare.0 -
When i spoke to the planning dept on an informal basis i was advised that there had been 2 planning applications. 1 for a house to 2 flats - approved and 1 for part of the bottom flat converted to 1 flat - refused.
I have spoken to the council and advised them that someone is living in a flat and not paying council tax, the man looked at his 'records' and saw only 2 flats so he will pass it on to the valuation office to investigate.
I dropped a letter through her door just saying how furious i am about this and that the reason she had none then lots of post was due to it being left in the porch and that if her or her landlord who is the freeholder says anything like that again i'll have a strong worded letter from a solicitor sent out to them. I expect the reaction to that to be a nasty phone call as they are quite a thick bunch and their people skills are 0.
The lease says nothing about us not parking on the drive, it just advises that we are not to cause a nuisance or obstruct them. The drive is 3 cars in width and 5 vars in length so a pretty big drive and we have a Corsa and a Renault Clio tucked over as far as we can get it and right in front of our garage. They seem to think that we are not allowed to park cars on the drive however.
Could GF Dad pass ownership of the flat over to us along with the lease? I'm not afraid of standing up to these people and the GF Dad doesn't want the hassle and we apart from this are happy there. All that is needed is the Freeholder to get a quiet word in their ear and it will all be over.0 -
Hi NSA,
You say "The lease says nothing about us not parking on the drive" but I'm afraid the question is does the lease say you can park in the drive.
The Title Plan for the upstairs flat will show a red line round the perimeter of the flat, indicating the extent of ownership of the lease. If there is no line round the drive, AND no mention in the lease of a right to use/park in the drive, then you probobly have no right.
Ideally you would also examine the lease for the downstairs flat to see if they have such a right specifically mentioned. Try downloading the lower flat Title deeds (leasehold and freehold) from the land registry. It may be that the rights to the drive belong to the property freehold.
Yes, GF Dad could pass ownership of the flat over to you along with the lease. But it would be a poisoned chalice. Management of properties like this is wholly dependant on a reasonable, communicative, cooperative freeholder. Somewhere in the future your building will need re-pointing, re-painting, re-roofing, new damp course, internal decoration of common areas, etc etc. Beware!!
Dad should sell, buy a flat elsewhere and pass that over to you.0 -
Hi G_M
The Freeholder owns the downstairs flat too and GF Dad is looking into the plans.
How easy is it to buy the freehold from the freeholder?0 -
The leeseholder may have the right to buy the freehold. Lots of good info here:
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/leaseholders_rights/buying_the_freehold0 -
nsabournemouth wrote: »Hi G_M
The Freeholder owns the downstairs flat too and GF Dad is looking into the plans. I know. That's why I mentioned it!
How easy is it to buy the freehold from the freeholder?
Might be harder to buy where freeholder is also a lease-holder but I'm not an expert here.
Best source of info is lease advisery service.0 -
Arthritic_Toe wrote: »The leeseholder may have the right to buy the freehold. Lots of good info here:
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/leaseholders_rights/buying_the_freehold
AFAIK there is no right to buy the freehold unless the freeholder wants to sell, the right to buy simply means you have the right to first refusal.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
nsabournemouth wrote: »The lease says nothing about us not parking on the drive, it just advises that we are not to cause a nuisance or obstruct them. The drive is 3 cars in width and 5 vars in length so a pretty big drive and we have a Corsa and a Renault Clio tucked over as far as we can get it and right in front of our garage. They seem to think that we are not allowed to park cars on the drive however.
The drive will be private property, unless part of the drive is specifically leased to your flat there is no right to park on the drive. As GM says check the freehold and check your long lease.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0
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