How IT literate does a person need to be to get a job?

vivatifosi

I wanted to ask this question as a result of something I've seen a lot over the past few months while working at the library. Job agencies, including for traditionally blue-collar and low-paid jobs such as cleaning, are increasingly asking for people to check their websites for jobs and apply on line.

I've noticed that there are three groups of people that are struggling with this. They don't understand e-mail, don't know how to put together a CV and don't know how to scan documents and add attachments. They end up increasingly frustrated. We as library workers can show people to a computer, but we don't have the time to show them how to use it, particularly when others queue for our services.

The three groups are: women who have been out of the workforce for some years and are returning to work after having a family; people with poor literacy skills, and those from less-developed countries but with a right to live here who have had limited IT exposure.

What can/should be done to ensure these people are not left behind? We'll still presumably need to fill the jobs they want to go for. Job Centres send people to the library so that they can use the computers, get online and apply for jobs, but who is going to train them?

Davesnave

It isn't just getting a job. It's accessing things they have a right to, like service when something is faulty.

Last week, my Humax satellite PVR died. Contacting their Customer Service Dept brought this instruction:

'We'll email you a warranty claim form, you fill it in on-line then return it to us with proof of purchase and your warranty and we will action a replacement tomorrow.'

So, I had to photograph my original receipt and the warranty card, and then email these together with the warranty claim form as attachments. A five minute job....if you have the skills & equipment. Otherwise, I suppose it would be snail mail, for the warranty claim form to reach me too, if I had no email address. It could take a week.....well, it did, but that's another story!

The point is, however, that no one explained. It was assumed right from the off that because I have a PVR, I must be techie.:(

Generali

vivatifosi wrote: »

I wanted to ask this question as a result of something I've seen a lot over the past few months while working at the library. Job agencies, including for traditionally blue-collar and low-paid jobs such as cleaning, are increasingly asking for people to check their websites for jobs and apply on line.

I've noticed that there are three groups of people that are struggling with this. They don't understand e-mail, don't know how to put together a CV and don't know how to scan documents and add attachments. They end up increasingly frustrated. We as library workers can show people to a computer, but we don't have the time to show them how to use it, particularly when others queue for our services.

The three groups are: women who have been out of the workforce for some years and are returning to work after having a family; people with poor literacy skills, and those from less-developed countries but with a right to live here who have had limited IT exposure.

What can/should be done to ensure these people are not left behind? We'll still presumably need to fill the jobs they want to go for. Job Centres send people to the library so that they can use the computers, get online and apply for jobs, but who is going to train them?

There are loads of basic compter training courses. This is the offering from Hackney:

http://www.learningtrust.co.uk/adult_learning/al_results_trustnet.aspx

ECDL is the European Computer Driving Licence IIRC. There is no more excuse to be IT illiterate than to be actually illiterate or innumerate.

avantra

Instead of more DWP agents filling forms in the JCP why not get some unemployed IT bods to help the people who really need it?

Two birds in one shot, the IT bod get a job so he doesn't have to go to the JCP agent and the IT illiterates gets closer to find a job reducing the amount of desk fillers in the JCP and DWP.:T

wigglebeena

Generali wrote: »

There are loads of basic compter training courses. This is the offering from Hackney:

http://www.learningtrust.co.uk/adult_learning/al_results_trustnet.aspx

ECDL is the European Computer Driving Licence IIRC. There is no more excuse to be IT illiterate than to be actually illiterate or innumerate.

Some people have technofear, and some people are 80 years old and never got past fractions, never mind into computers. Does that mean they deserve no access to public services?

vivatifosi

Generali wrote: »

There are loads of basic compter training courses. This is the offering from Hackney:

http://www.learningtrust.co.uk/adult_learning/al_results_trustnet.aspx

ECDL is the European Computer Driving Licence IIRC. There is no more excuse to be IT illiterate than to be actually illiterate or innumerate.

I'm not in Hackney Gen, so can't speak for there. What I will say for where I am is that there are plenty of courses on offer, such as ECDL, but trying to get on one is a different matter. For example, at our library we do have a limited budget to offer IT skills courses, but they are so oversubscribed that we could probably run the course ten times as much and still not get to everyone who wants to take it.

Fwiw, I'm sure some people looking for jobs are swinging the lead, but these people seem genuinely desperate to get into work. I wanted to raise the question because in a library offering free IT access (which to my knowledge most library authorities do) you're going to come across those with the lowest level of IT access. Most of our users don't have such skills problems, thankfully, they are people like students, people moving between areas and without access at home, people who want to just spend a bit of time online while they are out and about, etc. But I have been surprised to find in the time I've been there how many people are struggling. Seriously, it is quite a big issue.

vivatifosi

avantra wrote: »

Instead of more DWP agents filling forms in the JCP why not get some unemployed IT bods to help the people who really need it?

Two birds in one shot, the IT bod get a job so he doesn't have to go to the JCP agent and the IT illiterates gets closer to find a job reducing the amount of desk fillers in the JCP and DWP.:T

Joined up thinking avantra - great idea, but will never happen!

Generali

wigglebeena wrote: »

Some people have technofear, and some people are 80 years old and never got past fractions, never mind into computers. Does that mean they deserve no access to public services?

The OP was talking about job applications. I don't imagine too many 80 year olds are applying for jobs right now.

Council services etc should be available off line but then they are IME.

lemonjelly

vivatifosi wrote: »

I wanted to ask this question as a result of something I've seen a lot over the past few months while working at the library. Job agencies, including for traditionally blue-collar and low-paid jobs such as cleaning, are increasingly asking for people to check their websites for jobs and apply on line.

I've noticed that there are three groups of people that are struggling with this. They don't understand e-mail, don't know how to put together a CV and don't know how to scan documents and add attachments. They end up increasingly frustrated. We as library workers can show people to a computer, but we don't have the time to show them how to use it, particularly when others queue for our services.

The three groups are: women who have been out of the workforce for some years and are returning to work after having a family; people with poor literacy skills, and those from less-developed countries but with a right to live here who have had limited IT exposure.

What can/should be done to ensure these people are not left behind? We'll still presumably need to fill the jobs they want to go for. Job Centres send people to the library so that they can use the computers, get online and apply for jobs, but who is going to train them?

Great OP & also great thread viva! :T

I suspect it is more of an efficiency saving. After all, by it all being done online, it has big savings potentially.

After all, you don't have to pay admin to answer the phone for interested applicants. Admin then don't have to spend time compiling a list of the applicants, Preparing letters/packs to send out. It costs zero in paper costs (big saving on letterheads!) and zero costs in terms of postage (& no-one has to go out buying stamps, & also to the post office). You then don't have to sift through the daily post. In shortlisting, you don't have issues with deciphering difficult to read handwriting.

My current employer had a paper application form. They contacted me by text message to advise me to check my emails, & there was the letter inviting me to interview.

I must say, whilst I can see the benefits, I can also see the exclusion of a lot of people. I wouldn't class myself as IT literate , but I can use a P to a limited extent. I remember when I used to run a mile!

In addition, I used to work with a volunteer team, who had, for years relied on paper systems. In the beginning, their paper based information system was phased out. This did lead to many long standing volunteers leaving rather than attempt to use the PC based system. When their records system was also replaced by a web based system, even more left. Some, to their credit, did try. Some did have success (I recall showing 1 volunteer how to send an email, & later, accessing a friends wedding plan online). It is a whole new world to some. & they also frequently told me they were scared of breaking the machine.

lemonjelly

Generali wrote: »

There are loads of basic compter training courses. This is the offering from Hackney:

http://www.learningtrust.co.uk/adult_learning/al_results_trustnet.aspx

ECDL is the European Computer Driving Licence IIRC. There is no more excuse to be IT illiterate than to be actually illiterate or innumerate.

Not as straightforward as that though gen.

I remember a few years ago, when I worked in a CAB. The then DTI announced they were pulling all their (extremely useful) employment law leaflets from publication, & instead would just make them available online.

At the same time, we were running a survey on clients relating to a seperate issue. One of the questions on that survey related to whether the client had regular access to the internet or not.

Now, I accept that there has been expansion in internet availability in the 4 years since the survey. However the results showed that 1% of people surveyed in 2 months had internet access available to them. That statistic really surprised me. I didn't anticipate it would be quite that low.

I think the point viva is raising, is that there is a potential underclass who could perhaps be denied the opportunities to haul themselves out of being in an underclass, owing to a combination of lack of IT skills & imo, access to IT facilities.

blueboy43

vivatifosi wrote: »

I wanted to ask this question as a result of something I've seen a lot over the past few months while working at the library. Job agencies, including for traditionally blue-collar and low-paid jobs such as cleaning, are increasingly asking for people to check their websites for jobs and apply on line.

You'd be surprised at how many peoples basic skills in english & maths are so poor.

In a past life I worked in a logistics firm and many of the jobs involved warehousing 'picking', fairly un-skilled and manual although you need to be physically active to do it for 8 hours.Normally this is done by using a pick list that has a product number, serial number and quantity. We had a very basic paper (and I mean basic) test for english & maths. It astonished me how many people struggled.

The other issue was the number of youngish men (18-30) who didn't want to work more than 3 days as it would either affect their benefits or child support payments.

In many areas south of Birmingham (Rugby, Dartford & Swindon were 3 places) much of the seasonal (Xmas) picking was done by gangs of Portugese workers who would come to the UK for approx 3 months.