Not happy!

daveyjp

There's no reason why any of the large Pubcos couldn't have replicated what Wetherspoons do. They had enough pubs to have huge buying power from breweries and could have passed this on to landlords and built a successful business. Rent is based on profit so the more beer they sold the more profit, the higher the rent, but Pubcos were greedy.

Instead they tied landlords to buying beer and spirits from them at inflated prices so the Pubco could make more money, prices went up, people didn't buy as much.

A local publican has just moved from a pubco pub to a freehouse. He is selling the same beer, but buys it at £60 a barrel less than he did from the pubco, yet he is only buying a few barrels a week.

Sam Smiths still only charge about £1.40 for a pint - what are they doing right?

Conrad

I am careful with money and not wanton, but I do believe in paying a reasonable amount for services in particular. Money saving should'nt be about forcing others to work for nothing.

jon3001

Malcolm. wrote: »

The £220k equates to a 4% annual YoY increase on the original £86k pub price.

And of course nothing was required for maintenance, refurbishment, rates or captial gains over the 24 years. It just sat there and earned money.

blueboy43

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Your statements are broadly untrue.

Actually, just checked, it seems they are already ending them.

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?storycode=66215

Direct quotes from the all select report

The survey results, printed with the Committee’s evidence, underpinned the Committee’s findings. 64 per cent of lessees did not think their pubco added any value and while a fifth had had a dispute with their pubco, few (18 per cent) were satisfied with the outcome. The Committee was astonished to learn that 67 per cent of the lessees surveyed earned less than £15,000 pa and over 50 per cent of the lessees who had turnover of more than £500,000 pa earned less than £15,000 – a 3 per cent rate of return. The lessees may share the risks with their pubco but they do not appear to share the benefits.


"There are also strong indications that the existence of the tie pushes up prices to consumers"

The most damning was this

"As is noted elsewhere in this Report,URL="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmberr/26/2604.htm#note8"]8[/URL in evidence to us both Mr Thorley of Punch and Mr Tuppen and Mr Townsend of Enterprise Inns made assertions which, on investigation, proved to give a partial picture, or on one occasion were positively false. We recognise that those giving oral evidence may need to simplify a complex picture, and that slips of the tongue may occur, but these repeated slips have undermined the reliability of their evidence."


Pub Co's business model relies on mugs with redundancy or savings taking out leases. The Pub Co's will fleece them dry & find another mug when they give up.

One side effect is that most people who manage to make a living out of small pubs need a fair few fiddles to make ends meet.

They are not ending them but are introducing a voluntary code.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

blueboy43 wrote: »

Pub Co's business model relies on mugs with redundancy or savings taking out leases. The Pub Co's will fleece them dry & find another mug when they give up.

No landlord business model, be it retail, pubs, hotels, or residential, relies on churning good tenants. Void periods are expensive, and concessions to new tenants more so.

The truth is, whether you like it or not, that there are more pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cafes and bars in Britain than todays market can support.

Especially now that the smoking ban, cheap alcohol from supermarkets, recession and unemployment have taken their toll.

Beer consumption in the UK has been declining for many years. The smoking ban had a huge impact. The current anti-drinking message from the government is making things worse. And the numbers of people choosing to drink at home before going out to save money is at record levels.

The pub co's are a convenient target, and I agree they are no angels, but they are not the main reason for pubs failing.

One side effect is that most people who manage to make a living out of small pubs need a fair few fiddles to make ends meet.

Which calls into doubt your assertion above regarding income.

They are not ending them but are introducing a voluntary code.

So they are ending them. But doing so voluntarily.

blueboy43

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

So they are ending them. But doing so voluntarily.

More fool you if you think that the introduction of a voluntary code means anything at all.

inspector_monkfish

StevieJ wrote: »

Is he not still two years older than you

but after running a boozer for 24yrs he now looks about 20yrs older !!

Mr.Brown_4

StiflersMom wrote: »

Pity he didn't stick it into bricks and mortar - a lot less hassle and his investment would have more than quadrupled in the same time frame:

Does that graph tell you anything? Like prices divorced from reality perhaps? Would you expect the gap to close over the next few years, or continue getting wider?

Conrad

I did some pub finance deals last year. Damned difficult as few lenders will touch that sector now.

One of them is a very well thought of gastro pub next to the entrance to a top UK golf club. The valuation as is was £1m but the lenders were only valueing bricks and mortar (with all licenses lapsed/in jeapoardy) which bought it down to £550k.

The declared net profit was minimal but thier true cash earnings were pretty reasonable.

Davesnave

We have two pubs in our small village and I haven't a clue how either survives, though both 'do food' in rather different ways. I suppose, judging by the number of 4x4 pick-ups outside, they draw from quite a wide area. The chances of being stopped & breathalysed, unless one uses the A road, are pretty negligible, though local drivers don't appear to need alcoholic assistance in driving dangerously.;)

The other positive point here is that there's still a strong community, so with lots going on, it's common for whatever starts in the village hall to end in the pub. For example 3 Pantos last week = heaving pub Thursday, Friday, Sat. Pilates tonight = at least a few ladies extra in the bar. Skittles Thursday = another load of folks from elsewhere + locals + a few spouses....and so on.

Not sure where the profit resides myself ; the food we had on Saturday was more or less 'eat as much as you like' because of the over-adequate provision for our group and it cost £3 pp!!:)