Help/Advice needed regarding sudden 'Notice To Quit' without warning etc

All_That_Glitters_2

redcar wrote: »

With the door issue why don't you just shut it when you go past?

Oooh, trust me I do. I hate it being open but within minutes of closing it and me going into my place she opens the door again. She comes back over and over and re-opens it. Housing officers and council officials have been round and seen it and had to close it themselves and even spoken to her about it and they say a verbal warning is enough. Obviously not.

On one occasion, and this is how I know she's doing it to annoy me, I had my door open upstairs and the other neighbour came in and said to the nuisance neighbour "It's okay I'm in now you can close the door" and the nuisance neighbour said "No, it's okay, leave it open, it winds her up upstairs".

That said it all!! She's crazy!!

Fire_Fox

Please don't simply deal with this via telephone, this is a formal situation which needs a written response.

benoit

clutton wrote: »

jojwo - do different rules apply to council/HA tenants with regard to a Section 21 notice then ?

a Section 21 does not need a reason.. simply that the landlord wants the property back...

are you saying that HAs are not subject to the same tenancy laws as private landlords ?

HB regs clearly state that to be eligible for LHA then tenants must live in the property which LHA is paid for ... i have had tenants instructed that they cannot sleep anywhere else for more than 2 nights a week unless they are on annual holiday....

altho how they can afford holidays is beyond me......

LOL! It must be like a prison camp in one of your properties. Do you even make enquiries with the neighbours to make sure your tenants don't spend 20 minutes too long away from the property? It might surprise you but even people on benefits have friends & relatives they can stay with to make holidays more affordable.

squinty

From the Councils point of view they will need to go through a process.

Assuming you are a secure tenant, normally the only way the council can end the tenancy is by serving a Notice of Intention to Seek Possession on you, and then by going to court and asking the judge to award possession.

However, in this case it is different. If you are no longer living at the property (or more accurately no longer living at the property and have no intention to return) the tenancy does not end, but it ceases to be a secure tenancy, and the council can bring this to an end by serving a Notice to Quit.

This is used when people abandon properties and is quickly and cheaper than going through court – however it is much riskier for the council who, if they go through with this action for someone who has not left the property, they may be committing a criminal act.

It is important that you contact your Housing Officer as soon as possible to let them know your situation. I understand Fire Fox’s point that this should be in writing, but the important thing is to make contact as soon as possible to let them know you are living there (this can always be confirmed in writing). From the Councils point of view, if you do not respond for a week or so they may think that you use the property only occasionally as a mail drop. If they are unhelpful ask them to come round to see you at home, as mrsormrod said, this will give them the opportunity to see that you are living there

If possible get them to confirm in writing to you that they will be taking no further action.

If you do not get a satisfactory response, you should put in a formal complaint to the council. Their complaints procedure should be on their website.

All_That_Glitters_2

squinty wrote: »

From the Councils point of view they will need to go through a process.

Assuming you are a secure tenant, normally the only way the council can end the tenancy is by serving a Notice of Intention to Seek Possession on you, and then by going to court and asking the judge to award possession.

However, in this case it is different. If you are no longer living at the property (or more accurately no longer living at the property and have no intention to return) the tenancy does not end, but it ceases to be a secure tenancy, and the council can bring this to an end by serving a Notice to Quit.

This is used when people abandon properties and is quickly and cheaper than going through court – however it is much riskier for the council who, if they go through with this action for someone who has not left the property, they may be committing a criminal act.

It is important that you contact your Housing Officer as soon as possible to let them know your situation. I understand Fire Fox’s point that this should be in writing, but the important thing is to make contact as soon as possible to let them know you are living there (this can always be confirmed in writing). From the Councils point of view, if you do not respond for a week or so they may think that you use the property only occasionally as a mail drop. If they are unhelpful ask them to come round to see you at home, as mrsormrod said, this will give them the opportunity to see that you are living there

If possible get them to confirm in writing to you that they will be taking no further action.

If you do not get a satisfactory response, you should put in a formal complaint to the council. Their complaints procedure should be on their website.

Thanks so much for your incredible help and advice. I truly appreciate it.

Katie x

clutton_2

benoit says """i have had tenants instructed that they cannot sleep anywhere else for more than 2 nights a week unless they are on annual holiday.... ""

Oops ..... i can see how this reads !!!!

what i omitted to include was "instructed by the Benefits Agency" and i have seen these letters....... One tenants boyfriend last week showed me a letter, from BA, as a neighbour had "dobbed him in" - his 46 year old girlfreind was really struggling with a new baby, already having a 4 year old, and he had been there 4-5 nights a week... BA told him catergorically he could not do that - and if he did he would lose his own housing benefit.......

Re comments on holidays.. i still dont know how benefits folks afford holidays if it aint with family or friends.....


""It must be like a prison camp in one of your properties"" - its nothing like that - honest guv !! i have some tenants i have not spoken to for about 2 years, they pay their rent, i dont inspect as i know the house is immaculate, i leave them alone....... GASSAFE man contacts them directly... job done....
However, as a LL i have a legal duty to inform BA if a suspect a tenant is not actually livign in a property - as that means that i am committing benefit fraud by accepting monies for a fraudulent tenancy....

All_That_Glitters_2

Update on my case. Spoken to the council today and my counsellor.

Council said these kind of things are usually issued because of a complaint from a neighbour (hence the psycho living below me) and unfortunately the housing officers dealing with my case are on leave today so I can't get a call back till tomorrow (quelle surprise) but the woman I spoke to has visited me various times, knows about my depression and knows I'm a very good tenant (my tenant records even state 'exceptional tenant') from where they did a yearly report on how things were going for me and she seemed bemused I got this.

I said to her how stressful it was getting it, how bemused I was and how backward the whole process was. What a stupid way to go about it, stressing me out and serving such a notice based on a nuisance neighbours childish complaints. The logical thing to do (something council's in general don't seem well acquainted with - LOGIC) would have been to send me a letter saying they were concerned about my tenancy and wanted to clarify things are okay. They could have arranged a visit any time (as long as I had pre-warning as I wont answer the doors to people who I don't know are coming, due to depression/anxiety) and then they could clearly see I live here. Everything is here. Where on earth else do they think I live? I have a £30 a month high-speed broadband connection going, all my bills are paid, in fact my gas bill has gone up - how does that sound like I'm not living there? Do they think I've left and let a poltergeist do the rest, or something? :idea:

Anyway, my counsellor is also calling them as he comes to visit me a few times a week and knows very well that I live here so he's going to help. Apparently the 'Notice To Quit' can easily be cancelled and not to worry and also now if the neighbour complains again then they wont take it so seriously as it's clear she's lying and causing trouble.

I'm awaiting a call-back tomorrow but it looks like everything should be okay. Thank GOD!!

When this is all cleared though I'm going to arrange about moving out and ending my tenancy properly as that mentalist living below me is making my life hell and I want to get away as I feel like a prisoner here. I'm also making formal complaints about her too.

So, yeah, big weight off of my mind and some more good news today is that my Mum is being discharged from hospital with some home-care, so I'm relieved to hear that too.

I'm going to look into the legal implications for the council to send me such a letter, get me in such a state for nothing more than a neighbour complaining and being problematic and not so much as any evidence. Surely they can be held accountable for this? It's disgusting behaviour when they know I have serious anxiety issues.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your help and advice. I'll update tomorrow when I know more.

Katie x

squinty

All_That_Glitters wrote: »

I'm awaiting a call-back tomorrow but it looks like everything should be okay. Thank GOD!!

That is very good news.

All_That_Glitters wrote: »

When this is all cleared though I'm going to arrange about moving out and ending my tenancy properly as that mentalist living below me is making my life hell and I want to get away as I feel like a prisoner here.

That also sounds like a good plan. However, you now have no need to rush into this. You have a secure tenancy at a reasonable rent - you may be able to consider an exchange to another council property or to a Housing Asociation. Or, this has demonstrated that your neighbour is causing you a problem. Perhaps the council would consider a transfer to another property?

All_That_Glitters wrote: »

I'm going to look into the legal implications for the council to send me such a letter,

Sorry, but I don't understand why, and what you hope to gain by this. The council were passed some information and acted on it - yes it may have bit a bit quick off the mark, but there is no real harm done by this. Most councils are under intense pressure for housing and to avoid fraud it doesn't seem unreasonable to send you a letter.

Good luck

All_That_Glitters_2

squinty wrote:

However, you now have no need to rush into this. You have a secure tenancy at a reasonable rent - you may be able to consider an exchange to another council property or to a Housing Asociation. Or, this has demonstrated that your neighbour is causing you a problem. Perhaps the council would consider a transfer to another property?

Yes, it certainly gives me more time to plan and think about things.

squinty wrote:

Sorry, but I don't understand why, and what you hope to gain by this. The council were passed some information and acted on it - yes it may have bit a bit quick off the mark, but there is no real harm done by this. Most councils are under intense pressure for housing and to avoid fraud it doesn't seem unreasonable to send you a letter.

As mentioned I suffer from extreme depression and anxiety and when I got this letter I was an emotional mess and in a very dark place. As my occupational therapist/counsellor said today, to cause that much undue stress to someone who they know has had to have supported housing for serious depression-related issues by sending out a letter based on someone elses trouble-making is extremely unprofessional. At the very least I'd like a written apology. I don't think they should be able to get away with this and if action is taken then no one else will suffer like this.

squinty wrote:

Good luck

Thanks very much!!

Katie x

BitterAndTwisted

I would try and dissuade you from arguing the toss about something that the council treats as routine. I would also try and dissuade you from thinking about giving up a secure tenancy for the uncertainty of privately-rented accommodation. I suspect the effect of fretting about and having to move on a regular basis won't have a positive effect on your mood or state of mind.

What I would try to persuade you to think about is using this opportunity to investigate how you can provide further evidence of your mad neighbour's anti-social behaviour and harassment of you. Local Authorities now take this extremely seriously, so in a quiet moment I would sit down and write up all of things and times that your neighbour has behaved unreasonably towards you or anyone else. You don't know but there could be other neighbours who might welcome your contribution because they are sick to death of her as well.