Planning Application for HMOs 6 April 2010

Lstclair55

My understanding on it, it I have read it right, is that, if you have permission for C4 usuage, but then have a family in it the next time, you need to change back to C3?

phlash

Lstclair55 wrote: »

My understanding on it, it I have read it right, is that, if you have permission for C4 usuage, but then have a family in it the next time, you need to change back to C3?

Correct, but under the new legislation, no permission is needed to revert back to C3 from a C4.

RLH33

phlash wrote: »

What if you have decided to rent as an HMO post 6 April 2010, and you have signed an AST with tenants in preparation?
Well, this is tricky, and I would be interested to hear if anyone has come across anything. My local council has said that the property would still need planning permission in this instance, since it was not occupied prior to 6 April 2010. However, I have heard hearsay that this could be overuled, and if a signed AST is in place, then the property will automatically be granted a C4 as if it was occupied.

The Council is correct in this advice. If the building was not in 'use' as an HMO before 6 April then planning permission will be required to change the use of the property from C3 to C4. Having an AST signed and in place is not something that will hold any water with the Council, unless this was specifically written into the legislation - which I very much doubt.

I haven't read the legislation in detail but I would imagine the applications will be dealt with like any other change of use application so the target for dealing with it would be 8 weeks, after which the applicant would have the right to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate for non-determination. Under the current fee regulations the cost would be £335.

It just means more work for the planners, and having just had major redundancies in our local planning office it will be interesting to see who will be doing this extra work! That aside it will do nothing to control the existing problems that are caused by areas being over-run with student houses and the phrase 'shutting the door after the horse has bolted' comes to mind.

Lstclair55

phlash wrote: »

Correct, but under the new legislation, no permission is needed to revert back to C3 from a C4.

But what about if you wanted to then go back to C4 usuage say in a years time, after a family moved out and now three friends want to rent the house?

N79

This is unenforceable twaddle. I guess it will only last a few years. You can always spot such SIs by the questions that they leave unanswered such as:

What happpens when the status of Ts changes mid tenancy (eg a couple plus a friend become 3 seperate "units")?
How are LL's supposed to determine who is and is not a couple?
etc, etc

I look forward to the first case where an attempt to prosecute a LL depends on determing the relationship status of the chav / student classes with all their casual relationships or depends on the ability to tease apart a broad extending family.

In the meantime I pity any student LLs who now need to ask their Ts to report who is "coupling" with whom in order to determine if the property needs a planning application!

RLH33

Lstclair55 wrote: »

But what about if you wanted to then go back to C4 usuage say in a years time, after a family moved out and now three friends want to rent the house?

What you could do to circumvent this is to apply for an either/or use. You basically put on the application form that you want a a C3 and a C4 use. This means that you can then change between the two and then at the end of 10 years whichever use is insitu at that time becomes the permitted use thereafter.

N79 - I agree this will be very hard to enforce where the number of people living in the accommodation is near to 3, however if you have 8 people then it will be easier!

N79

RLH33 wrote: »

N79 - I agree this will be very hard to enforce where the number of people living in the accommodation is near to 3, however if you have 8 people then it will be easier!

True enough. I have no facts to back it up but I am willing to bet that there are a lot more "potential" HMOs with 3 inhabitants than with 8 inhabitants. Although I suppose that the problems this solution will not solve are mostly associated with the larger HMOs.

If the government destroys cheap low standard (but acceptable) high density housing then my concern is where will the people who need this type of accomodation (students, young non professional people, people on benfits etc) go? Either LHA rates will have to rise or these people will be driven to unregulated "black market" LLs who could not give a toss about any of their obligations.

phlash

Thanks guys for the info so far.

In my locality, it seems the planners are not going to be very forth coming with granting permission.

What has been overlooked, is that 'new' HMO's create competition, which stimulates investment in the housing stock. The number of HMO's needed remains constant therefore 'new' entrants push old hats back into residential. This cycle has now been stopped......what does it achieve.....a monopoly!

Current LL's now have a monopoly that they can now collectively hike prices without fear of new entrants. Absolutely the worst outcome, it means LL get greedy and spend less on their houses. Students care less about the property and surrounding area, and you end up with increased anti social behaviour.

phlash

Just to add to this:

What if three people own a house (as friends i.e. unrelated) and live in it. Will they have to apply for planning permission?!

notconvinced_2

My son is a mature student who has been living in the same property for 2 years with 3 other students. They are respected members of the community and no complaints have ever been made against them. However due to new legislation his landlord has told him that he will be unable to renew the lease (as he cant afford £950 to pay for the new planning licence) unless the 2 boys cohabitate with the 2 girls so forming just 2 households. So the goverments pimping now!!!