NHS Policies has got me wound right up

TOBRUK

Trialia wrote: »

Trouble with me is, if I am unable to make it, it is always a last-minute thing. I don't know the day beforehand that I'm going to wake up with a migraine or I'm going to have such a bad night the night before that I sleep through my alarm. That's why the system is flawed, to a point: an unexpected level of illness is treated as a default on an appointment even if it wasn't that you didn't attend because you forgot, or didn't bother.

Oh I understand completely Triala, I always worry when I have any appointment at the hospital as I suffer with M.E. and when it's really bad it's difficult to even get out of bed, let alone get dressed! You just hope that on that day you are able to get there.;)

On those occasions when you have had to cancel, have you tried speaking to the consultant's secretary (not the number for outpatients or appointment section) and explaining? Mind you I suppose it depends on whether the secretary is the type who:) wants to be helpful and understanding.

Mupette

Unity wrote: »

Having read through the posts here, I'm just wondering if there is not a case to answer under the Disability Discrimination Act? Effectively you are being discriminated against for being ill, as fibro is recognised as a disabling condition by the World Health Organisation - even though many GPs don't believe it exists :eek:.

My mother was sent a very snotty letter for missing an appointment with her oncologist. I did however write in with an explanation and an apology that she hadn't managed to get there - due to being dead . You couldn't make it up :rotfl:.

omg that is just terrible, as long as they were informed of the death prior to this then there is absolutely no excuse.

ceebeeby

Oh lord, what am I doing! I swore I wouldn't respond to anymore "NHS awful" threads ... and here I am again.

In response to the OP.

I am so sorry that you're upset that you've been removed from a waiting list, and that it has caused you distress - however, here's the thing. Each short notice cancellation costs the hospital approximately £70. You've now done it 4 times (£280).

Each cancellation has been as the result of an illness / condition, that you have given no indication has resolved itself. So, theoretically, you could be given another 4 (or 400) appointments, and you're never going to be well enough to attend them, or there's the slim possibility that you MIGHT be well enough to get along to one.

In the meantime 4 appointments (in which 4 other patients could have been seen) have been wasted.

So, your arguement seems to be to keep giving you appointments, and it's fine for you to short notice cancel as many times as you want???

As far as i can tell from your post, no-one is blaming you or having a go at you, but in an effort to help you they've suggested you go back to your GP. Your GP will have a note from the hospital to say you were too unwell to attend any of these appointments. My guess is the note will say please investigate the underlying cause to ensure no further cancellations, and then when better, please re-refer.

I cannot think of a better solution, as to indefinitely keep on giving you appointments that MIGHT be wasted, is a bloomin' lot of taxpayers money down the swaney whilst there are other people on waiting lists hoping to be seen sooner.

Good luck with getting well enough to get in for a future appointment, I hope you get it sorted soon.

In response to Unity

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. If your hospital had known, the patient information system SHOULD have been updated, and this would prevent letters being sent out. It's not infallible though, as it does rely on the system being manually updated. I can only imagine the distress is causes when the system goes wrong.

MrsManda

ceebeeby wrote: »

As far as i can tell from your post, no-one is blaming you or having a go at you, but in an effort to help you they've suggested you go back to your GP. Your GP will have a note from the hospital to say you were too unwell to attend any of these appointments. My guess is the note will say please investigate the underlying cause to ensure no further cancellations, and then when better, please re-refer.

a secondary note on this; by sending a letter from the hospital to the GP, the hospital is making sure that the G.P. is aware that you are having problems getting to the hospital for these appointments (which the GP obviously thinks you need otherwise he wouldn't have referred you) and therefore allowing the GP the opportunity to consider a better way of getting you to a specialist. The hospital hasn't met you yet so can't make assumptions on what would be best, therefore your GP needs to know the situation so he can discuss the options with you.

Mupette

Ofcourse i feel bad for having to cancel at short notice, but the suggestion has been made to me that if i can give them at least 10 days notice then they can give my appointment to someone else... that i totally agree with...... in theroy.

There is no underlying reason for me to have been ill so much apart from the time of year, poor hygiene from others to spread germs in the first place, there is nothing i can do that i am not doing already (never leaving the house unless its hospital or clinic) thus reducing the amount of time i am with other human contact, apart from son and partner if they bring anything to the house.

I cannot unfortunately predict how i am going to feel for an example next Thursday.
I cannot boost my immune system to help fight the colds and flu's because my uvitis will then kick off and that might put my eye sight at risk (it's happend before - lucky to get sight back)

I feel i am in a no win situation, if i just let the gp deal with it and forever put me back on the list, i'm not getting to the treatment to help me cope with the pain i have.

It's easy to say that those with germs should stay home until better, but that will never ever happen.

MrsManda

Mupette wrote: »

I feel i am in a no win situation, if i just let the gp deal with it and forever put me back on the list, i'm not getting to the treatment to help me cope with the pain i have.

I didn't mean let your GP keep putting you back on the waiting list. My suggestion is that you can't help keep being ill and the hospital keeping giving you appointments which you cancel at short notice isn't getting you the help you need, is likely to be causing you upset as I'm sure you don't like cancelling at the last minute, and also preventing others from getting treatment. Therefore perhaps there is another way of doing things and the only way to see if there's another way is for someone who knows your medical history (ie your GP) knowing you are having these difficulties and using a little bit of imagination and inititative.

Mupette

MrsManda wrote: »

I didn't mean let your GP keep putting you back on the waiting list. My suggestion is that you can't help keep being ill and the hospital keeping giving you appointments which you cancel at short notice isn't getting you the help you need, is likely to be causing you upset as I'm sure you don't like cancelling at the last minute, and also preventing others from getting treatment. Therefore perhaps there is another way of doing things and the only way to see if there's another way is for someone who knows your medical history (ie your GP) knowing you are having these difficulties and using a little bit of imagination and inititative.

The clinic secretary made a suggestion that a hospital stay maybe needed, that i couldn't do as i have a son at home. GP isn't that good to be honest, and i can't change as she finally gets the problems with my health,

Savvy_Sue

ceebeeby wrote: »

In response to Unity

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. If your hospital had known, the patient information system SHOULD have been updated, and this would prevent letters being sent out. It's not infallible though, as it does rely on the system being manually updated. I can only imagine the distress is causes when the system goes wrong.

While my Dad was in hospital for the last time, we kept getting text messages on his mobile phone reminding him about outpatient appointments or blood tests he was due to have. The daft thing was that these messages never said which clinic they were for; they never gave a contact number, and you couldn't reply to the text.

We knew what some of them were for, and asked the ward to let them know he wouldn't be coming, but some of them were a bit of a mystery!

Mupette wrote: »

The clinic secretary made a suggestion that a hospital stay maybe needed, that i couldn't do as i have a son at home.

I appreciate that a hospital stay would be very difficult, but would it be worth starting to think about that possibility? Because presumably if you don't get these problems sorted you'll find it more and more difficult to cope and keep caring for him anyway, and a planned admission would be a whole lot better than an emergency one, wouldn't it?

Mupette

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I appreciate that a hospital stay would be very difficult, but would it be worth starting to think about that possibility? Because presumably if you don't get these problems sorted you'll find it more and more difficult to cope and keep caring for him anyway, and a planned admission would be a whole lot better than an emergency one, wouldn't it?

Yes you are right, i guess a planned admission is something i could/should consider, although i can't get my head around that, (someone might need that bed more than me)
It is possible for my son to stay over at my partners house for the period.

I've not careed (as a mother) for my son in ages, it's the other way around... that does depress me.

I want nothing more than to attend these appointments and get some plan underway to help with the pain. It's just sods law i've been too ill on the day each time, frustraiting, really frustraiting

Unity

Mupette wrote: »

omg that is just terrible, as long as they were informed of the death prior to this then there is absolutely no excuse.

Thank you for your comments, it took a long time to get over that one as it was the final straw in a string of mistakes - the biggest of which caused mum to have an extremely painful death.

I will now apologise for hi-jacking your thread and hope you can forgive me .

ceebeeby wrote: »

In response to Unity

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. If your hospital had known, the patient information system SHOULD have been updated, and this would prevent letters being sent out. It's not infallible though, as it does rely on the system being manually updated. I can only imagine the distress is causes when the system goes wrong.

The hospital in question does not do well in league tables but things like amputating the wrong limb will tend to affect their position . My mum was an inpatient with her arm broken in two places (one of which went undetected) and her femur shattered, after breast cancer metastasised into her bones. We had been told she was terminally ill.

I personally phoned her oncologist's secretary and explained that mum was in the hospital and that they wanted to operate to stabilise the broken bones, but that we as a family, felt she had suffered more than enough. I asked if the secretary could ask her consultant to see mum after his clinic on the floor below. The message was never passed on. At the enquiry we found that he had two part-time secretaries and the message had not been passed from one to the other. Does that shock you? It did me at the time, but it wouldn't now.

Mum went to theatre on an assessment by the anaesthetist and they had to bring her out without doing the second op because she had to be resuscitated.

A consultant radiologist became involved, who wanted to transfer her to another hospital for radiotherapy. Mum was semi-conscious and completely incoherent by this time so we pleaded that she be allowed to die in peace with some dignity - but no. The radiologist read the scans incorrectly, told us that she was "merely suffering from hypocalcaemia and could have another two years pain-free mobility".

They moved her on the Thursday, she had radiotherapy on Friday and then they realised the mistake. From then until her death on the following Tuesday, she lay twitching constantly in extreme pain - unable to communicate. We said our goodbyes but she never got the chance to say hers.

It was two months later that the letter arrived to say she'd missed her appointment.

ceebeeby - I can understand why you refrain from commenting on yet another "NHS Awful" thread but unfortunately there are more problems now than there were when the above happened twenty years ago! To the extent that staff in the hospital where this happened, now always say they hope they are out of town if they need a hospital and jokingly refer to the NHS as the "No Hope Service".

Sir Gerry Robinson proved categorically that the NHS could be fixed in his three part series on the BBC - the following is an article in the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3352489/Gerry-Robinson-I-can-fix-the-NHS-but-they-wont-listen.html

The many problems Mupette's included need to be addressed but they simply are not. I appreciate your point on missed appointments, but here's my case where £140 could have been saved by the NHS! No one's so far mentioned the appointments that are cancelled by the hospitals themselves - I was sent out three appointments for the same consultant on the same day all within two hours of each other - the final one did not arrive until the day after it should have taken place! These were all sent after the previous appointment was cancelled (the reason given was that they could see me sooner and reduce waiting lists) and I found myself with a different consultant altogether:eek:. Just this Friday I received a pre-op assessment appointment for 26th Feb - but my surgery was booked for Tuesday 23rd :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:. You see, it just gets better and better.

Far too much is blamed on computers when we all know it is the person inputting the data that's at fault. Certainly in the hospital I've mentioned there is a total lack of concern, no one is held to account, mistakes are just an everyday story, so commonplace that I suspect people cheer when something actually goes right:T.

I have no doubt whatsoever ceebeeby that there are those like yourself who care, and if they had more like you, the NHS would not be in the state it is in. The degree of incompetence at all levels would not happen in the private sector - heads would roll - but I for one certainly do not want to see the NHS privatised in order to make it work:eek:.

I am quite sure that the cost of missed appointments for those like Mupette and others who suffer from a disabling and unpredictable condition pales into insignificance alongside the wastage from under-utilised theatres as shown in the Sir Gerry Robinson programmes. Perhaps it is time that surgeons employed by the NHS were provided with a "Clocking-in-and-out" system, so that the tax payer could see just how much of their time is spent doing their job and not moonlighting in the private sector - I'm sure that would go down well :rotfl:.

It is after all not as if they are paid the minimum wage - as the minimum wage for a consultant surgeon in 2004 when consultant contracts came under review - appeared to be around the £63,000 mark (those in pathology making decidedly less) - they must certainly be dedicated since the top surgeons can earn an extra £250,000 elsewhere;) . The figures are here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jan/05/health.politics and will no doubt have gone up since this article was written.

I do sincerely appreciate that there are some wonderful physicians working long and hard over and above what they are contracted to do within the NHS. It has been my privilege to meet and be treated by some of them but they are the exception rather than the rule - perhaps this is why I remember them so well. As for the rest? Well they prompted the old but still funny joke:

"What is the difference between God and a consultant?"

"God doesn't think he's a consultant!"

For every thread you read that comes under your heading "NHS Awful", there will be many, many other people who have suffered to a lesser or greater degree, but won't put fingers to keyboards because they think it is futile. That really is the saddest part of all this, that we have come to accept an unacceptable situation.