Cycling and Road Arrows

derrick

That bus is definitely in the wrong!Whilst it is true re the white arrows not have "legal" status, I think a call to the police to monitor the lights for a few minutes whilst a bus,(or several) pass this junction, a stern talk to the drivers and bus comapany shoild obtain the desired result.

Maybe you could email the Google steet view to the police traffic division, that picture shows clearly the wrongdoing of the bus driver.

p.s. don't forget the cyclists are breaking the law by cycling on the pavement,(pot and kettle come to mind).

Billy-no-Money

The buses are doing nothing 'wrong' here - the issue is the poor road markings, and they're taking a reasonable (and legal) approach.

The junction looks like a dog's breakfast tbh, but one thing that would worry me is that if cyclists make a fuss they'll convert the footpath into shared use and put in Toucan crossings - then all the drivers will expect you to be on the path out of the way of their Very Important Journeys!

Middle of the left hand lane is the safest place to be - not pleasant though.

derrick

Billy-no-Money wrote: »

The buses are doing nothing 'wrong' here - the issue is the poor road markings, and they're taking a reasonable (and legal) approach.

The junction looks like a dog's breakfast tbh, but one thing that would worry me is that if cyclists make a fuss they'll convert the footpath into shared use and put in Toucan crossings - then all the drivers will expect you to be on the path out of the way of their Very Important Journeys!

Middle of the left hand lane is the safest place to be - not pleasant though.

Sorry, the left hand lane is clearly marked as "turn left", for any driver to go straight on,(aren't bus drivers supposed to be "professional" drivers? and as such should adhere to the HC),can be construed as inconsiderate driving, and if they where to cause or nearly cause an accident could be prosecuted as such.

134

"You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. "

The "professional" bus driver is obviously oblivious to the HC.


The junction is clearly road and signpost marked for even the most novice of motorist to understand.



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verybigchris

derrick wrote: »

"You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. ".

The key word there is should. If the Highway Code said must then the bus drivers would have no choice. As it is, they could claim that stopping in the left-turn lane while waiting for a gap to appear in the straight-ahead lane is even more inconsiderate.

derrick

verybigchris wrote: »

The key word there is should. If the Highway Code said must then the bus drivers would have no choice. As it is, they could claim that stopping in the left-turn lane while waiting for a gap to appear in the straight-ahead lane is even more inconsiderate.

I agree re the word "should", (I never said different).

However whilst the arrows are advisory, the "professional" bus driver ignored them, and by causing or nearly causing an accident could be prosecuted for "driving with out consideration for other road users".

Why could the bus driver "claim that stopping in the left-turn lane while waiting for a gap to appear in the straight-ahead lane is even more inconsiderate"? Why wouldn't they enter the correct lane further back down the road? If needed to wait for a gap,(not neccassary in the picture), this cannot be construed as being inconsiderate, just adhering to the HC,(if we all did so, there would be less accidents and road rage).

As I said earlier, "the left hand lane is clearly marked as "turn left", and the "professional" driver should obey it.

Would love to see the reaction of said bus driver if a motorist ignored left turn arrow and cut them up!

verybigchris

derrick wrote: »

Why could the bus driver "claim that stopping in the left-turn lane while waiting for a gap to appear in the straight-ahead lane is even more inconsiderate"? Why wouldn't they enter the correct lane further back down the road? If needed to wait for a gap,(not neccassary in the picture), this cannot be construed as being inconsiderate, just adhering to the HC,(if we all did so, there would be less accidents and road rage).

I'm assuming there's a bus stop before the junction, so the drivers have to move into the left lane to stop, and then can't get back over. The HC says road users should give way to buses precisely for this reason, but sadly many drivers ignore it, which would leave the bus stuck in the wrong lane. There's a situation like this near where I live, and the buses that stop have to sweep across 3 lanes of traffic to make a right turn within about 50 yards of the stop, and nobody ever seems to want to let them out.

Obviously, if there is no stop near this junction then that negates all that and means the bus drivers are just being selfish idiots!

derrick

verybigchris wrote: »

I'm assuming there's a bus stop before the junction, so the drivers have to move into the left lane to stop, and then can't get back over. The HC says road users should give way to buses precisely for this reason, but sadly many drivers ignore it, which would leave the bus stuck in the wrong lane. There's a situation like this near where I live, and the buses that stop have to sweep across 3 lanes of traffic to make a right turn within about 50 yards of the stop, and nobody ever seems to want to let them out.

Obviously, if there is no stop near this junction then that negates all that and means the bus drivers are just being selfish idiots!

Don't assume:D

Remember what you said about the word "should" in the HC, ("If the Highway Code said must....") you can't have it both ways, it is a request, and by not adhering to it cannot be charged with "driving with out consideration for other road users", unlike not following the lane markings and causing or nearly causing an accident. If a driver did not "give way to a bus" and the bus driver pulled out anyway, the bus driver is guilty of "driving with out consideration for other road users", same as not following the arrows on the road.

You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence IMO.


If you spin the image in the link through 180, you will see there is no bus stop in the immediate vicinity.

Marty06

verybigchris wrote: »

I'm assuming there's a bus stop before the junction, so the drivers have to move into the left lane to stop, and then can't get back over.

No, there's no bus stop nearby. You can see where the nearest one is (a long way back) if you go back over the bridge on Google Streetview. If you do this, you'll also see the lane arrows start a long way back. Buses opt for this lane deliberately (often changing lane from the right hand lane).

Again, I'm not entirely sure they are are being 'selfish' as both lanes of traffic tend to queue equally (so they are not trying to queue jump). They just seem to assume that this is the best lane for them to take to go straight on (taxis do it too). Maybe it is, but it isn't marked like that and causes problems for cyclists when they do it and it's a shame the bus company doesn't recognise this as a problem when it is pointed out to them.

verybigchris

derrick wrote: »

If you spin the image in the link through 180, you will see there is no bus stop in the immediate vicinity.

Marty06 wrote: »

No, there's no bus stop nearby. You can see where the nearest one is (a long way back) if you go back over the bridge on Google Streetview.

I stand corrected

DirectDebacle

Certainly it is not well marked and is in dire need of re-painting. I would suggest that the nearside lane be painted as a combi mark for left turn and straight ahead and the other lane be marked as King St Only as enforceable traffic directions. This would prevent buses turning from the nearside lane into King St which is what concerns you.

The downside is that at times there could be two buses occupying both lanes at the front. In that case you could position yourself behind the 'King St' bus and follow it when it moves off.

At present does traffic stop at the first white line marking the cycle lane and leave the cycle lane clear when the lights are at red? If so can you not stop in this area ahead of the bus in the nearside lane and be in front of it when the lights change. The bus would then have to follow you through the juction if it was in the nearside lane but heading for King St. Alternatively stop behind the rear offside of the bus and you can ride through the junction keeping to its offside rear until such time as you know whether it is going straight on or down King St.

The council are obviously 'bike aware' as they have made cycle lanes. Someone there will be responsible for them and you could suggest an improvement to the current layout.