ISA & Income support

DX2

Beware "notional" income and capital

Notional income and capital

For means tested benefits, a person may be treated as having income or capital even though they do not actually possess it. This can occur if the decision maker thinks the claimant has:
• Deliberately got rid of income/capital in order to keep or claim benefit (called deprivation of capital)



• Failed to apply for income or capital in order to keep claim benefit



• Not yet received income/capital, which is due. For example wages legally due but not paid. For example where the employer is paying less than the national minimum wage



• Benefited indirectly from third party payments where money is paid to someone on the claimants' behalf. For example money paid to a landlord for the claimant's rent



• Performed cheap or unpaid labour and the decision maker thinks they should be properly paid for it



• Given a 'gift' to someone else in order to keep or claim benefit.
　
In all these cases, the decision maker may assume the claimant still possess the income or capital. Many exceptions apply to these general rules.
For notional capital, there is 'diminishing capital' rule. This is a formula, which reduces the amount of notional capital a claimant is assumed to have. Again, seek advice for details. A person receiving a notional income or capital decision should seek advice, as the decision may be appealable

Oldernotwiser

mark6 wrote: »

I'd just like to say thanks to HapptMJ as your advice has been most helpfull. You've helped me decide what's probably best to do. I feel a bit guilty, but I'm only doing what i'm entitled to.

It's really pointless to ask for advice and only listen to (and thank) the person who's said what you want to hear!

mark6

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It's really pointless to ask for advice and only listen to (and thank) the person who's said what you want to hear!

Ok, I apologize. Thanks to everyone for your opinions and the replies I got. Obviously there were mixed opinions and to be honest if I was answering my question from someone else 6 months ago I would have been with the majority.

It's just now i'm in a different position, and look back at how I looked at all the people on disabilty living allowance and benefits, and the lifestyle they had, as I used to deal with motability customers and their cars/tyres, as they didn't have to pay for them. I'm sort of thinking it pay back time.

I could have gone out once or twice a week,maybe a holiday every year. Rented a little flat,decorated it, furnished it. But I didn't, I saved every single penny I could to get a deposit for a house up to the age of 37. Just as I'm about to get a mortgage I lose my job. So because I saved i'm looked at as though I'm ok to live without help from the government so I'l end up in a while back to square one with no savings and living at home.

Maybe its my fault for not finding out what I was entitled to when I was working as then I may not have ended up been in this position.

sunnyone

mark6 wrote: »

Hi there,Wondered if anyone can advise on this situation.

I've just been out of work now for 5 months for the first time in my life and have been claiming JSA due to national insurance contributions. I will soon be put onto income support if I can. When I first claimed I declared I have more than £16000 savings.

The problem is, £14000 of this is in an ISA and it isn't all sort of mine.

I'm 37 and still currently living at home. I originally moved out with a friend but he lost his job so couldn't afford it on my own. My parents took me back at £250 lodge a month. As I wasn't really saving money after a year or so they decided to make me bank the lodge to save for a house deposit, so all the money in my Isa is the lodge of £250 a month that my parents have allowed me to save + interest, as they also helped my sister years ago when she got married. Now i'm still out of work after 5 months they are asking I pay them the money back,not all of it,just £9000=3yrs of lodge as with this money I won't be elegible to income support and will end up using it to live on and then end up back on square one with no savings and living at home and dependant on my parents still. They have struggled to accomodate me financially up to now due to this and I feel guilty living at home still but as I have a profound hearing loss have struggled to progress in life and work.

The problem is i suppose, I've told them this would look like deprivation of capital on my behalf and am worried I could get accused of conning the system.

Can anyone help on this,as my parents don't want to chuck me out and then be dependant on the system for housing benefit ect. But they also don't want to be seeing me have no deposit for a house when I eventually get another job.

I had just applied for a mortgage about a month before losing my job.

Thanks if anyone can help

Mark

mark6 wrote: »

Ok, I apologize. Thanks to everyone for your opinions and the replies I got. Obviously there were mixed opinions and to be honest if I was answering my question from someone else 6 months ago I would have been with the majority.

It's just now i'm in a different position, and look back at how I looked at all the people on disabilty living allowance and benefits, and the lifestyle they had, as I used to deal with motability customers and their cars/tyres, as they didn't have to pay for them. I'm sort of thinking it pay back time.

I could have gone out once or twice a week,maybe a holiday every year. Rented a little flat,decorated it, furnished it. But I didn't, I saved every single penny I could to get a deposit for a house up to the age of 37. Just as I'm about to get a mortgage I lose my job. So because I saved i'm looked at as though I'm ok to live without help from the government so I'l end up in a while back to square one with no savings and living at home.

Maybe its my fault for not finding out what I was entitled to when I was working as then I may not have ended up been in this position.

why dont you read both your posts above and see the discrepancies between the two before you decide to have a go at disabled people?

Indie_Kid

mark6 wrote: »

It's just now i'm in a different position, and look back at how I looked at all the people on disabilty living allowance and benefits, and the lifestyle they had.

What lifestyle? Not being able to do things that you take for granted?

qwertyuiop12345

mark6 wrote: »

My parents never gave me the money,they didn't take the lodge of me, at the end of each tax year I put it in an ISA. I never used to earn much money and some months I didn't have to take any money out the bank as I was living of my parents. To me this is proof that the money in the ISA is theirs. You can even see by statements I was drawing £250 a month out on the 28th of every month and then it stopped. That was then when the money in the Isa started.

Is that good enought proof??

Be careful with this line of argument as if you were holding someone else's money in your ISA then wouldn't they be guilty of tax evasion and wouldn't you be guilty of conspiracy to commit tax evasion?

Hear-Hear

Apologies in advance to all if the following appears to be going OT, but I do think it relevant.

Mark6 says ".....I was advised by the doctors that I shouldn't really be working in a noisy environment years ago but it was all I knew and it paid. Since losing my job I've been to the hospital and have been given that facts on how it has made my hearing worse. I can't really go back into the motor trade due to the noise....."

'Noise-induced' is the second-biggest cause of hearing loss. The normal ageing process - natural wear and tear - is the biggest of course. If Mark6 has suffered noise-induced damage, then the damage has already been done. He is really in no different a situation to anyone working in the motor trade today. Further damage is possible, but can be reduced - almost eliminated - with sufficent noise protection. Avoiding the over-the-counter products, proper protection for that environment would be either custom-built to fit all in the ear, or headsets that completely cover and seal the ears. Either option should cost no more than £150.00 or so for top-notch protection.

I would withdraw all the above if it was an ENT Consultant that advised Mark6 to avoid that type of work again in the future, but a GP or an audiologist at the Hospital in simply not qualified to give that advice alone.

Mark6 needs to get back into the workplace. There must be a demand for tyre fitters............ or was there another reason that I have missed for Mark6 losing his job ?

[Deleted User]

mark6 wrote: »

Ok, I apologize. Thanks to everyone for your opinions and the replies I got. Obviously there were mixed opinions and to be honest if I was answering my question from someone else 6 months ago I would have been with the majority.

It's just now i'm in a different position, and look back at how I looked at all the people on disabilty living allowance and benefits, and the lifestyle they had, as I used to deal with motability customers and their cars/tyres, as they didn't have to pay for them. I'm sort of thinking it pay back time.

I could have gone out once or twice a week,maybe a holiday every year. Rented a little flat,decorated it, furnished it. But I didn't, I saved every single penny I could to get a deposit for a house up to the age of 37. Just as I'm about to get a mortgage I lose my job. So because I saved i'm looked at as though I'm ok to live without help from the government so I'l end up in a while back to square one with no savings and living at home.

Maybe its my fault for not finding out what I was entitled to when I was working as then I may not have ended up been in this position.

motability customers do pay for their cars they pay £50 a week,if you want to have a go at the disabled youre in the wrong place matey,try DT you`ll be in good company

septemberblues

The thing is OP, you have plenty of money in your ISAs etc to live on now that you are not working, it should keep you afloat for at least two years, so what problem do you have in spending it?

The money is in your name, and now you should start to spend it to live on until you get another job, or you can even afford to go to college to retrain for a job.

bestpud

septemberblues wrote: »

The thing is OP, you have plenty of money in your ISAs etc to live on now that you are not working, it should keep you afloat for at least two years, so what problem do you have in spending it?

The money is in your name, and now you should start to spend it to live on until you get another job, or you can even afford to go to college to retrain for a job.

If your parents allowed you to live free so you could save this money for your future, then maybe a college course would make you, and them, feel it is still being used for something productive?

If you really can't go back into the same job then you will have to make another career for yourself; it's just daft to write yourself off because you have a hearing problem!

How about going to see a careers advisor for a chat about things you may like to do?

As you have money to support yourself, you could do voluntary work alongside a course, so you'd have a qualification and experience at the end too.

I guess I'm saying it may be better if you can shelve the resentment and focus on making a new life for yourself? It may not be the one you'd planned but that's life!

Have a look at this site to give you a starting point:

http://careersadvice.direct.gov.uk/