MSE News: British Gas locks thousands into expensive tariffs

misscooldude

I just followed the URL on the email they sent me that you go to if you don't want to go onto the price fix 2011 and filled in my details. It has just thanked me for ordering their standard tariff (which was the alternative option). No mention on the page of exit fees or anything so I wonder if I'll get charged - most likely I expect. I'm not a good moneysaver!

Pinktooth

This puts me off BG when I move to new house and choose between EDF and EON anyone in Nuneaton and done the comparisons for best supplier?

Pimpslider

misscooldude wrote: »

I just followed the URL on the email they sent me that you go to if you don't want to go onto the price fix 2011 and filled in my details. It has just thanked me for ordering their standard tariff (which was the alternative option). No mention on the page of exit fees or anything so I wonder if I'll get charged - most likely I expect. I'm not a good moneysaver!

Very similar to myself. I was on the Price Gurantee December 2009, and was told at the time of taking it out that there would be a £70 fee if I changed tariff. I got an eMail mid December saying I would be put on the 2011 one automatically. I checked the rates. Unbelievable!! Even the rates of the December 2009 were massive compared to the Standard Tariff.

So, I said I didn't want to go on the 2011 and wanted to switch to the Standard Tariff (I couldn't switch at the time though as it was still December and would be charged the £70!!). Once I had done that, at the start of the year I changed to Websaver 5, which is even cheaper than Standard. My DD's were dropped from £65p/m to £33p/m, and from £45p/m to £26p/m. I, however, decided on a happy medium of £50 and £35 to prevent me hitting the red.

I don't think I will ever take up a Price Gurantee / Fixed Rate 'Deal' ever ever again!

davidgmmafan

Ok this is descending into farce now

"So I know that my tariff will be changing as of the 1st of May. If I am written to being offered a different product I will review the product and decide if I want it. If I don't, I say no thanks and revert to the standard tariff."

That's all well and good but that's not what we are discussing here. The article is about putting customer onto a tariff WITH a cancellation fee AUTOMATICALLY. This is entirely different to the example you give and the example given earlier of a deemed contract. In practice if you change the supplier you get a bill from the prev supplier for about 28 days. You don't get a charge to which you did not consent.

Then we have

"It is not necessary for any company to get your 'agreement' for the terms and conditions of a tariff - we don't sign contracts these days.

If you go on a tariff you have accepted the terms and conditions of that tariff - they don't, for example, seek your agreement to raise prices."

You clearly have no understanding of contracts... They can be written and verbal. But again this IS NOT the issue here.

I can agree to a tariff, and they send me out full terms and conditions. there may be a cancellation fee. It it something quite different, when that tariff ends, to put me into another contract which has a cancellation fee and take silence as consent.

What if people live abroad? What if the tariff is terribly uncompetitive?

Try to be impartial for a minute. if what your are saying is right and proper then the customer agrees to pay whatver rates and cancellation charges the company sees fit to impose. I'm not sure this is legal, nor should it be.

davidgmmafan

snugglepet20 wrote: »

Good point about the consent issue. In order to make a contract you must expressly agree to it's terms plus in every other field consent cannot be given by silence usually it must be expressly given unless that is impossible which is not the case here. For example you must consent to medical procedures, sign contracts with banks and insurance etc. Also once a contract has been agreed you cannot change it's terms unless both parties agree. I don't see how this can be legal.

I quite agree but that doesn't stop companies trying to get round it. Halifax has vastly changed the T & C's of its bank account. It says in the contract if customers don't agree to the changes then the account can be closed. But they say they can't close accounts which are overdrawn (which is tosh) and therefore they are effectively locking customers into to T & C they did not agree to.

I agree there are practical issues involved in banks and credit cards making changes to contracts and trying to secure consent. They too take silence as acceptance, but they are least put the details of the changes into something important like a statement.

Lots of little changes coudl change the contract out of all recognition and the more I think about it how could anyone prove you agreed to the T & C's? If its verbal they'd better have the call recorded, if it was posted out regualr mail (which they are) they cannot prove you agreed.

An interesting legal point, has this ever been tested? I also object in principle to insurers and the like retaining bank or card details to renew automatically. They say its to ensure you are covered, whereas I think its to increase the likelihood you will stay with them through apathy and inertia.

francoiseh

Hi All, I Just joined forum.
I was also on the Dec 2009 dual fuel cap. I received a letter from BG to either be put onto the new 2011 cap if I didnt reply, or to reply to confirm my request to move to standard tariff. I replied asking for standard tariff and soon received a confirmation letter dated 26/01/2010 confirming my move onto standard tariff. Signed M. Uzielli, head of pricing.
On 04/02/2010 I then received a BG e-mail with this extract:
Given that you've just signed up, we're passing on our latest gas price reduction
As you took up Price Guarantee March 2011 only a few weeks ago, we thought it would only be fair to pass on our latest price reduction.......

I have ignored it! As far as I am concerned (and my latest bill also confirms) I am now, (for a short while at least,) on standard tariff. This is until I decide my next supplier.
I think my BG email was to alarm me and to get me to contact BG call centre, so they could try the hard sell at my expense!!! Why else? Unless they are totally incompetent in administering accounts!!
Robin

MarkyMarkD

davidgmmafan wrote: »

I quite agree but that doesn't stop companies trying to get round it. Halifax has vastly changed the T & C's of its bank account. It says in the contract if customers don't agree to the changes then the account can be closed. But they say they can't close accounts which are overdrawn (which is tosh) and therefore they are effectively locking customers into to T & C they did not agree to.

I agree there are practical issues involved in banks and credit cards making changes to contracts and trying to secure consent. They too take silence as acceptance, but they are least put the details of the changes into something important like a statement.

Lots of little changes coudl change the contract out of all recognition and the more I think about it how could anyone prove you agreed to the T & C's? If its verbal they'd better have the call recorded, if it was posted out regualr mail (which they are) they cannot prove you agreed.

An interesting legal point, has this ever been tested? I also object in principle to insurers and the like retaining bank or card details to renew automatically. They say its to ensure you are covered, whereas I think its to increase the likelihood you will stay with them through apathy and inertia.

It is standard practice in all sorts of contracts for the terms to be variable over time. It is totally unreasonable to expect any supplier to deliver an ongoing service, over an indefinite period, without giving them the right to unilaterally revise the price as they see fit. As long as there is an option to exit, without penalty, when the change is made, that is totally reasonable.

As you say, banks do this all the time. And it is not, in any way, unacceptable.

You criticise Halifax because "you can't close an account when it's overdrawn". Of course you can't - the contractual relationship cannot be terminated until the debt is repaid. But you can't block them from amending the contractual terms forever simply by maintaining a small overdraft - how would that be fair?

Automatic renewal on insurance contracts is fair too. There are 100s of insurers to choose from; they do not all do automatic renewal. If you don't like it, simply insure with someone else or pay by another method if available.

The cheaper prices often available from companies which practice auto-renewal is because ... surprise, surprise ... they get a higher level of renewals due to customer laziness. That's not wrong - it's consumer choice at the outset. Why should you have the benefit of the cheaper price if you won't take the (Huge??) additional hassle of reading your renewal documents and cancelling if necessary?

KimYeovil

davidgmmafan wrote: »

I quite agree but that doesn't stop companies trying to get round it. Halifax has vastly changed the T & C's of its bank account. It says in the contract if customers don't agree to the changes then the account can be closed. But they say they can't close accounts which are overdrawn (which is tosh) and therefore they are effectively locking customers into to T & C they did not agree to.

Rubbish. Just clear the overdraft with your next paycheque and close the account.

Toptipper

I wonder if anyone else has had my elderly father's experience with British Gas. I help watch over important dates etc for him and so was aware that when his fixed price tariff came to an end on 31st Dec we would need to act before 31st Jan to avoid a rollover onto the BG proposed new fixed deal. Having decided with my father that changing to BG's websaver 5 tariff would be best for him, we phoned to notify BG that he didn't want to rollover but would apply online, as directed, for our preferred tariff. All seemed fine until last week my father received an email from BG stating that he had chosen to rollover on to the 2011 tariff! I shall, of course, dispute this, but why can't BG get it right? In previous years we have had conflicting information about which tariff my father is on, and how much he is being charged. I know that I have to look very carefully at each communication that is sent, double-checking that BG hasn't changed his tariff to another without telling him! This is wrong for any customer, but I fear for elderly people who haven't got somebody to help them. My father hadn't realised the error in the last email, so if I hadn't seen it it seems he would have gone on being charged a tariff that he had specifically declined.

My message is, don't assume that because you have acted as the small print dictates that you do not have to keep watching what is happening to your account! Gremlins seem to get in regularly to make unauthorised changes.

Shaden_2

All,
IMPORTANT

Below is relevant extract of Suppliers License Conditions which applies for both Gas and Electric. Unfortunately the only reason the energy suppliers can get away with trying these things on is because OFGEM and the Ombudsman are so willingly ineffective i.e. where have they brought this to your attention!
See below:

Condition 23. Notification of Domestic Supply Contract terms
Notification of Principal Terms
23.1 Before it enters into a Domestic Supply Contract with a Domestic Customer, the licensee must take all reasonable steps to bring the Principal Terms of that
contract to the attention of that customer.
Notification before Domestic Supply Contract ends
23.2 On or about 30 Working Days before a Domestic Supply Contract is due to end, the licensee must inform the Domestic Customer (who is party to that contract) in Writing of the Principal Terms of the Deemed Contract that will apply after the
Domestic Supply Contract ends if he does not enter into a new Domestic Supply
Contract.
Notification of unilateral variation
23.3 If, in accordance with the terms of a Domestic Supply Contract with a Domestic Customer, the licensee unilaterally varies a term of the contract:
(a) to increase the Charges for the Supply of Electricity to a Domestic
Premises; or
(b) in any other way that is to the significant disadvantage of the customer,
the licensee must give Notice of that variation to the customer in accordance with paragraph 23.4,
23.4 The Notice referred to in paragraph 23.3 must:
(a) have been given before the end of 65 Working Days after the date on
which the variation has effect;
(b) inform the Domestic Customer that he may end the Domestic Supply
Contract if the variation is unacceptable to him; and
(c) explain the effect of paragraph 23.5.
23.5 If the Domestic Customer notifies the licensee after he becomes aware (by any
means) of the variation but no later than 10 Working Days after the date on which
he receives Notice given under paragraph 23.3 that he is ending the Domestic
Supply Contract, the licensee must treat that variation as ineffective and neither enforce nor take advantage of it.

Just add that I just returned from France where for my accomodation I was charged a flat 0.11 euros (9.3p) per unit Kw for electricity, on the old 2008 exchange rate true equivalent that would be 7 pence/Kw or in other words 7p per unit!