why should a bt customer pay for a line that is not good for adsl

dave54

due to the recent line fault that i have, isp saying it's a pstn fault,even though i can't hear noise apart from when trhe router gets a sync,

i do know that it has nothing to do with any equipment my side of the master socket,(test socket also been used for test puposes)

so, if i report it to bt as a voice fault,they send out an engineer, he checks the line sees no fault on voice side,
i would get charged around £100 and still have this fault, would my isp pay this?, i doubt it,

but the way i see it is this if my phone line is faulty it should not matter which it affects adsl/pstn(voice) they should fix it , they (bt) should also mave a routine maintanence plan, relpacing old rotten lines long before they present problems, as they don't and have the monopoly on this(only they can work on lines) then why should we have to pay for the rental of such a shoddy line??

if this don't get fixed soon, and other isp's arn't willing to get the fault fixed prior to connection, ect, then 2 things for sure will be happening, my bb will be cancelled and so will bt as if i can't have a bb service on your lines ,then im not prepared to pay you your extortiate fees for voice only

Heinz

If it's a broadband fault, it should be reported to your ISP.

It's for them to fix (otherwise, they're in breach of contract), not pass back to you with some lame excuse.

iniltous

BT's only obligation is to provide a line capable of providing telephony and a data transfer of 36Kb/s, so if you report it faulty to BT as a telephony provider and its OK for telephony then why would they not charge you for wasting their time, if your broadband doesnt work then report it to your ISP and if they wont do anything about it, change ISP...
All BT copper lines are suposed to comply with a standard SIN 351, if it doesnt you should get it fixed but if the fault only affects broadband then your ISP should get Openreach to deal with it, not you, after all you have diagnosed the problem yourself, but you cannot know for sure when the fault (if there is one) is, it could be in the ISP equipment,

dave54

I already have several times,head and brick wall ,on that , they tell me that they have had the line card changed, and that their engineers and bt engineers have tested the line at the exchange and no fault was found, but as of dec 09 i keep getting drop outs from having none for around 15mths i say that is bull as they certainly is a fault be it pstn or adsl i don't give a dam which, but i want it fixing the way things should work is this a customer calls out bt, bt find a voice fault,fix fault no charge, or bt don't find voice fault,should also check for adsl fault, if such present then that too should be fixed, but the facts are that they don't also check for adsl faults, and also on a lot of occasions don't find the fault on a first visit, it ain't good enough,especially if they are extorting a large amount of£££ for it on top of line rental fees that should cover such things, and if the lines can't support adsl properly then maybe bt should allow isp's to put in their own network of cables to customers premisses , and bt also provide adsl over the same shoddy network that is not designed for such fast data speeds, so that they are hypocrites ,why don't isp's get bt out to from a cp visit ,here is why:http://www.aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-sfi.html
you can also see that bt are being unreasonable too,

dave54

I already have several times,head and brick wall ,on that , they tell me that they have had the line card changed, and that their engineers and bt engineers have tested the line at the exchange and no fault was found, but as of Dec 09 i keep getting drop outs from having none for around 15mths i say that is bull as they certainly is a fault be it pstn or adsl i don't give a dam which, but i want it fixing the way things should work is this a customer calls out bt, bt find a voice fault,fix fault no charge, or bt don't find voice fault,should also check for adsl fault, if such present then that too should be fixed, but the facts are that they don't also check for adsl faults, and also on a lot of occasions don't find the fault on a first visit, it ain't good enough,especially if they are extorting a large amount of£££ for it on top of line rental fees that should cover such things, and if the lines can't support adsl properly then maybe bt should allow isp's to put in their own network of cables to customers premisses , and bt also provide adsl over the same shoddy network that is not designed for such fast data speeds, so that they are hypocrites ,why don't isp's get bt out to from a cp visit ,here is why:http://www.aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-sfi.html
you can also see that bt are being unreasonable too,

iniltous

You seem to think that a BT engineer sent out on a pstn fault has access and the ability to fix a fault on potentially another companys broadband kit , why ?
Given that your problem is broadband drop outs why do you report it as a telephony problem, as I said, if your ISP wont do anything for you , change ISP, if the fabric of the line is defective then it would probably be apparent on the telephony side and the Openreach engineers that have already been out wouldnt be able to close a fault report unless the line tests ok ( to sin351), why just because you had no problem for 15 months before getting this problem does this mean the ISP kit must be OK ??. it may have recently developed a fault or it could even be your own equipment unless you have already swapped this out

dave54

Firstly the engineer don't have to be able to check the isp's kit in the exchange, but should be able to find any problem with the line from exchange to my home that would affect the broadband signal,
this is somthing that at the moment does not seem to happen if you call em out for a voice fault

all equipment connected to the master socket is new as it all has been replaced within the last few weeks,

the isp have apparently had the line card at the exchange replaced and have had bt check the line tested ok?
they have also logged this with bt on an earlier occassion which also returned no fault,

thing is are these tests they have conducted the same as the useless remote test bt perform when you report a voice fault? if so im not suprised at the results,
swapping isp to get a line fault fixed ? only the one in the link does this, but unfortunately then don't sell a unlimited plan, why i don't know as they re-sell be products, there was i time other than this i had a similar problem but the drop outs where occuring a lot more fequently, bt were called by isp,but by the time the engineer had arrived the problem had gone, probably fixed by another engineer,(as i had heard somone performing the quiet line test) when i tried making a call, it wasn't the same engineer btw i asked him,
i am also able to hear the router getting sync and a noise burst after sync lasting for a few secs, then silence ,which is the same as what it did last time,

Mark_In_Hampshire

Voice faults are the responsibility of your calls provider e.g. BT Retail. However you don't have a voice fault.

ADSL faults are the responsibility of your ISP.

In either event it will be passed to a privatised monopoly company called Openreach to deal with, who oddly enough are owned by BT.

You say you can hear noise when your router syncs. You should not hear the ADSL frequencies on the phone line - this would point to a faulty micro-filter, no micro-filter or the micro-filter being in the wrong place. That may be a clue.

BT Openreach have to supply lines that are capable of carrying a voice signal and capable of dial up internet access @ 28.8 kbps, nothing more.

While BT might like to advertise their broadband as being in some way comparable to Virgin Media, it's a laughable claim. Cable does not degrade over distance. ADSL is entirely dependent upon the quality and length of the line. If the line consists of aliminium, has dodgy joins, or is much more than a couple of miles long ADSL is barely possible at any usable speed let alone the "up to 20Mbps" being touted on the ads.

Hvaing only skim-read the above - if you've just had ADSL enabled and it isn't stable, it might be that the line just isn't capable. That doesn't actually mean it's faulty. Ultimately, if you press the issue with the ISP the result might be that it's disabled altogether and your money is refunded. What result do you get for your line if you put your number into the availability checker at thinkbroadband.com? If it's "maybe 256kbps if you're lucky" there's a clue.

If it's a better result, then the line may be faulty. In either and any event, you need to progress with your ISP.

This is where the quality of your ISP comes into play. Mass providers don't really care a lot whether it works or not. They can't, for e.g. £10 a month.

AAISP pride themselves on being good at sorting things out:
http://www.aaisp.com/broadband-trial.html

Because BT Openreach are a monopoly, they can charge your ISP what they like (within certain limits) and determine whether or not to bother: they don't report to the end customer. There is no competition, so quality of service is compromised. Again when you're paying an ISP a small fee per month, there is no incentive for them to bother progressing it.

Finally, some people - such as us - can get faster speeds via 3G than ADSL. That's worth checking out if you don't get anywhere.

Sadly, your case simply highlights why the UK is so backward in terms of broadband provision and I believe about 26th in the world for speed of service.

dave54

Mark_In_Hampshire wrote: »

Voice faults are the responsibility of your calls provider e.g. BT Retail. However you don't have a voice fault.

ADSL faults are the responsibility of your ISP.

In either event it will be passed to a privatised monopoly company called Openreach to deal with, who oddly enough are owned by BT.

You say you can hear noise when your router syncs. You should not hear the ADSL frequencies on the phone line - this would point to a faulty micro-filter, no micro-filter or the micro-filter being in the wrong place. That may be a clue.

BT Openreach have to supply lines that are capable of carrying a voice signal and capable of dial up internet access @ 28.8 kbps, nothing more.

While BT might like to advertise their broadband as being in some way comparable to Virgin Media, it's a laughable claim. Cable does not degrade over distance. ADSL is entirely dependent upon the quality and length of the line. If the line consists of aliminium, has dodgy joins, or is much more than a couple of miles long ADSL is barely possible at any usable speed let alone the "up to 20Mbps" being touted on the ads.

Hvaing only skim-read the above - if you've just had ADSL enabled and it isn't stable, it might be that the line just isn't capable. That doesn't actually mean it's faulty. Ultimately, if you press the issue with the ISP the result might be that it's disabled altogether and your money is refunded. What result do you get for your line if you put your number into the availability checker at thinkbroadband.com? If it's "maybe 256kbps if you're lucky" there's a clue.

If it's a better result, then the line may be faulty. In either and any event, you need to progress with your ISP.

This is where the quality of your ISP comes into play. Mass providers don't really care a lot whether it works or not. They can't, for e.g. £10 a month.

AAISP pride themselves on being good at sorting things out:
http://www.aaisp.com/broadband-trial.html

Because BT Openreach are a monopoly, they can charge your ISP what they like (within certain limits) and determine whether or not to bother: they don't report to the end customer. There is no competition, so quality of service is compromised. Again when you're paying an ISP a small fee per month, there is no incentive for them to bother progressing it.

Finally, some people - such as us - can get faster speeds via 3G than ADSL. That's worth checking out if you don't get anywhere.

Sadly, your case simply highlights why the UK is so backward in terms of broadband provision and I believe about 26th in the world for speed of service.

Very true, aaisp, reading their terms and c's they don't take mirgations from customers who are on llu as this costs them more and alters the type of faults or somthing similar according to the info on their web site,i had already seen that ,lol
as for the noise durng router syncing with the kit in the exchange, i have even tried with 2 adsl filters connected before the telephone,and get still hear it ,though not as clearly,
there is noise also after the sync, this will built up in volume to a point then cease, for ages then return again,my isp would sooner half my data rate and put me on interleave, both of which im against as the connection would be unusable to me then,they call this troubleshooting, should it still drop out then they would look at organising a bt sfi i presume, meanwhile im paying full rate for half the service