'Would you work or claim benefit?' poll discussion

amus

mademoiselle wrote: »

....and you shouldn't have said it here. I consider the above to be an ill-informed, judgemental diatribe against a medical condition you clearly do not understand.

And what has this to do with the topic??

If you DO work for DWP, you shouldn't. You do not demonstrate any grasp of how essential fair treatment is.

I cannot abide people like you with your holier than thou attitude. Dont presume to know what I do and do not know about, I never said that such a condition did not exist I said a lot of people use it as an excuse to claim sickness benefit. But if you dont work in the benefits system you wouldnt know would you? Also please do not tell me that because I am aware that there are a lot of people unfairly cheating the system I shouldnt be in my job. As I said in my original post I have no problems with people who are genuinely ill claiming benefits (including those who have true depression, who have passed the medical exam they are sent for) and do everything I can to help them. Also dont presume to tell me what I can and cannot say - look it up its called free speech. My job involves looking at the medical reports for people claiming benefit so when I talk about depression I am far better informed than most, and am well aware what doctors look for when making a diagnosis. This is how I know that a lot of people claiming are not truly depressed, and also why a lot of these people are now having their benefits stopped.

amus

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Medical expertise gained from the Mail on Sunday women's section, I suspect. I presume she also feels like taking the vaccum cleaner cable, looping one end round a wardrobe rail and the other round her neck too, just because she has been in bed for a few days. Or stepping out in front of a bus hoping the pain will stop for a moment. No? She doesn't?

That'll be because she doesn't have depression. Which is an illness that can prove fatal. Especially when unrecognised, dismissed and untreated.

Nasty person. I wouldn't wish depression on anyone (btw, I haven't got it, but have met plenty of people who have). But she would certainly either change her tune or become one of those statistics if she were to experience it at some time. It would probably make her a nicer person. Or at least better at dealing with the clients.

Yet another holier than tho person who doesnt have a clue. Before you start calling people 'nasty' you should perhaps understand what they are actually saying. Yes I am aware that there are genuine cases of depression I never said otherwise, a close member of my family was hospitalised as a result of it. The point I was making is a lot of people who do not have it use it as an excuse to claim benefits when in fact they are just lazy, and not wanting to get dressed and do housework is not always depression as many claiming ESA /IB seem to think (although lack of motivation is a symptom used in the diagnosis of depression, in anything more than mild depression there are many other symptoms present). Medical expertise gained from reading hundreds of medical reports compiled by qualified Doctors by the way.
When you do my job and see medical reports come back with terminally ill patients in their 20's, perhaps you might understand why I would think these people are more deserving of benefits (and in my opinion should get more money than) people who claim to have depression because they dont want to get up in the morning. Puts things in perspective dont you think? As I have said I will do anything in my power to help those who are genuinely ill (and that includes those with GENUINE mental health issues). Oh what a nasty person I am!!

scubatony

I am single
I am unemployed
I am not bothered about "WHAT" the money is ! ! !

I JUST WANT A JOB

I am a Contstruction M & E Project Manager.

If you are an employer,and looking for a very experienced M & E Project Manager send me a p.m for my c.v

Regards

Tony

glossyhair

karenfielder wrote: »

Add to that the interest free loans that the job centre give away to the unemployed (why, they are unemployed?) which funds thier holidays abroad etc.!

Actually, these "loans" are capped at quite a low level and are VERY difficult to get; you have be on the "right" benefit and to prove you need them; I am having to wait a year before I can even apply. (Hopefully I will have a job before the time is up!!) Then, if you successfully jump through all the application hoops, the repayments are taken out of your already paltry weekly benefit.

Shall I tell you why I want a loan? Hmm? It is actually to pay off my utility bills and catch up on my TV licence as my benefit doesn't allow enough money to live i.e. eat and pay all the basic bills!

I don't smoke or drink, my car is off the road as I cannot afford the MOT or basic repairs it needs, I have an old TV, no satellite or cable subscriptions, my mobile phone is about 5 years old & on the cheapest tariff with the most free minutes, I don't gamble and I can't remember when I last had a holiday. I often have to postpone much needed hospital appointments because I cannot afford the bus fares, I can't afford my contact lenses any more, I don't even have to money to go visit my immediate family, let alone my friends, and can't remember my last night out. I have sold everything that anyone will buy; clothes, shoes, jewellery, books, music etc until there is nothing left to sell.

My only "indulgence" is a £12 PruHealth gym membership per month (thanks Martin!!) which keeps me active and sane and healthy in both body and mind. Given that I have given up almost everything else, I don't have a problem with that.

I have sat in the job centre, in an open setting (having my requests to move into a more private, VACANT meeting room flatly refused), in floods of uncontrollable tears because I simply cannot cope with the ongoing stress of living below the poverty line, the patronising behaviour of the staff, the inhuman rules, completely irrelevant courses I am forced to attend, and the harsh judgements of the majority of people in this society.

As I have said before, please don't generalise!!!! People on benefits are NOT all the same. We are individual human beings with needs and feelings, just the same as those people who are lucky enough to have the financial security of a job.

Of course there are people who abuse the system, there always has been and always will be . . . but why should I be treated like a second class citizen because of someone else's behaviour?

I have worked and paid tax and NI for over 25 years and I believe I am fully entitled to claim the "benefit" when I need it.

Believe it, for me and countless other single people with no children, a life on benefits is neither easy nor a matter of choice.

I am educated, intelligent, well qualified and articulate with a lot to contribute to the society in which I live; I am not a lazy scrounger.

Who are any of you to judge me??!! Would it be so hard to show some compassion and kindness to each other?!

GotNo£

hullight wrote: »

But why should I have to pay for your career choices? If it's that important to you, invest in it yourself, i.e. get a job and pay for it.

My dad is paying for it since he's paid full tax and NI in this Country for over 40 years. So get down off your pony.

hullight

GotNo£ wrote: »

My dad is paying for it since he's paid full tax and NI in this Country for over 40 years. So get down off your pony.

As has everybody else like him...

karenfielder

glossyhair wrote: »

Actually, these "loans" are capped at quite a low level and are VERY difficult to get; you have be on the "right" benefit and to prove you need them; I am having to wait a year before I can even apply. (Hopefully I will have a job before the time is up!!) Then, if you successfully jump through all the application hoops, the repayments are taken out of your already paltry weekly benefit.

Shall I tell you why I want a loan? Hmm? It is actually to pay off my utility bills and catch up on my TV licence as my benefit doesn't allow enough money to live i.e. eat and pay all the basic bills!

I don't smoke or drink, my car is off the road as I cannot afford the MOT or basic repairs it needs, I have an old TV, no satellite or cable subscriptions, my mobile phone is about 5 years old & on the cheapest tariff with the most free minutes, I don't gamble and I can't remember when I last had a holiday. I often have to postpone much needed hospital appointments because I cannot afford the bus fares, I can't afford my contact lenses any more, I don't even have to money to go visit my immediate family, let alone my friends, and can't remember my last night out. I have sold everything that anyone will buy; clothes, shoes, jewellery, books, music etc until there is nothing left to sell.

My only "indulgence" is a £12 PruHealth gym membership per month (thanks Martin!!) which keeps me active and sane and healthy in both body and mind. Given that I have given up almost everything else, I don't have a problem with that.

I have sat in the job centre, in an open setting (having my requests to move into a more private, VACANT meeting room flatly refused), in floods of uncontrollable tears because I simply cannot cope with the ongoing stress of living below the poverty line, the patronising behaviour of the staff, the inhuman rules, completely irrelevant courses I am forced to attend, and the harsh judgements of the majority of people in this society.

As I have said before, please don't generalise!!!! People on benefits are NOT all the same. We are individual human beings with needs and feelings, just the same as those people who are lucky enough to have the financial security of a job.

Of course there are people who abuse the system, there always has been and always will be . . . but why should I be treated like a second class citizen because of someone else's behaviour?

I have worked and paid tax and NI for over 25 years and I believe I am fully entitled to claim the "benefit" when I need it.

Believe it, for me and countless other single people with no children, a life on benefits is neither easy nor a matter of choice.

I am educated, intelligent, well qualified and articulate with a lot to contribute to the society in which I live; I am not a lazy scrounger.

Who are any of you to judge me??!! Would it be so hard to show some compassion and kindness to each other?!

My statement was not "a personal attack" it was based on actual FACT of people that I have encountered, who were obviously ripping off the system. Of course there are the genuine unemployed just seeking help and guidance from the jobcentre, I myself found myself unemployed for two months last year and dreaded entering the depressing jobcentre to be ridiculed and looked down upon by the staff. I attended my initial signing on interview in a smart suit with my CV and all of my certificates validating all of my qualifications, the cow of an interviewer did not even look up at me, let alone take an interest in my qualifications! I left there and had a good cry feeling very belittled but I think this probably spurred me on to take the first job I could get!

karenfielder

Tippytoes wrote: »

Well I will give you a WELL-INFORMED opinion, no a STATEMENT about the "imports" - if my interpretation of an import is correct. Many imports come into this country without having any information about the place they have landed in EXCEPT the location of the nearest JCP and CAB. Illegals are actually rather smug about their illegal status. Those who speak not a word of English are assigned interpreters (at approx. £70 per hour). They demand (and get) benefits and other handouts. Any resistance and they will wave the race card. Imports are actually very, very crafty and know exactly how to manipulate the system to their advantage. I would love to whistle-blow, but I signed a confidentiality clause.....

Well Tippytoes, someone had to say it, most people think it but are afraid to say it, you had the guts to say it, admirable. I can also confirm that when I lived in spain for four years, I could not claim any freebies, I had to work for my money, no job -no food, that is the difference between us and any other country. Also I had to learn the language, which was only polite to do so but also imperative because if I needed a GP or Hospital treatment or the Local Police then it was either speak their language to them, hire your own interpreter or go away! Why are we in britain so bloody stupid?

cit_k

amus wrote: »

The point I was making is a lot of people who do not have it use it as an excuse to claim benefits when in fact they are just lazy, and not wanting to get dressed and do housework is not always depression as many claiming ESA /IB seem to think (although lack of motivation is a symptom used in the diagnosis of depression, in anything more than mild depression there are many other symptoms present).

Yes, and the ATOS 'medical' reports tend not to give a stuff about many of the symptoms.

amus wrote: »

Medical expertise gained from reading hundreds of medical reports compiled by qualified Doctors by the way.

Are you sure your not a troll? A you really saying you work for the DWP, reading ATOS 'medical' reports for people with depression, ergo must be a decision maker?

If you are a decision maker, you must be a very bad one, as you should know that ATOS usually do not use doctors for mental examinations, as the legislation allows them to use bog standard nurses for mental exams. Which is cheaper, a nurse or a doctor, which easier to get hold of?

They are not even real medical reports anyway. They are based on the output of LIMA, and the medical is not about diagnosing a patient, they dont even check the patients medical history, you should know all this, if you dont, you seriously need to start learning more about your job.

As I said in my original post I have no problems with people who are genuinely ill claiming benefits (including those who have true depression, who have passed the medical exam they are sent for) and do everything I can to help them.

And those that dont pass the medical, must be faking it? Despite the fact a high percentage on IB who fail then win at appeal? What about the fact the tribunal service has SLAMMED the quality of the decision making made by DWP decision makers, and the quality of the medical reports?

How come so many get to appeal in the first place, its because decision makers are not doing their job properly, there should NEVER be a situation where a case gets to appeal where the medical report easily discredited as being full of inconsistancies, its people like you whose job it is to stop that from happening, but for well over a decade, cases have been getting to tribunals that should have been stopped at the original decision, and certainly picked up at the reconsideration stage.

GotNo£

hullight wrote: »

As has everybody else like him...

So i'm entitled to get something back from the system without people like you whining that you are paying for it.