Help? Practicality, light and safety - Extension (EDITED AFTER FEEDBACK)

uropachild

Hi there!

We are going to be getting a single story extension on the back of our house to allow for a bigger kitchen area and somewhere for the kiddos and us to escape to. The extension will be right across the back, but only 3 meters out so we won't need planning permission.

My question is about the safety, lighting and practicality of having the kids room where it is. My fear is that they will get into the kitchen and manage to hurt themselves, but we obviously cannot put a wall up there, since this side of the house is the side joined on to our neighbours house and therefore has no windows. Does anyone know of a solution?

I also worry that because the kids part is on the way from the living room to the kitchen/diner than it will become a kind of walkway instead of a nice room for them. I have played around with a million different layout ideas though, and i can't seem to find one that works as well.

The office is basically a room for my crafting things and my husbands guitars. It needs to be shut off so that the kids can't get in there and get at our stuff. Also, i wouldn't like the idea of the shower room being directly off the kids room if you see what i mean. Plus, this room will have some soundproofing in the walls for my husbands guitar practice.

Is there any wisdoms anyone could offer? I have attached a very technical drawing of what the ground floor will look like with the extension on as i have it planned out for now. Any and all advice would be very highly appreciated.

Here's the extension included in the house.



and here's what it looks like now.




UPDATE BELOW

Okay, so i've taken everyone's thoughts on board and managed to come up with another plan. This is the closest i've come to being excited about it and getting "the feeling" that it's right if you know what i mean.

I just need to make some points cause people mentioned some stuff...

1a. We are going to be living in this house for the foreseeable future. The only time we are likely to move is if DH needs to change his job or something. Pretty unlikely, but a slim possibility. This means though, that we're confident that we can build this extension with OUR needs and wants in mind without dwelling tooooo much on resale value and stuff like that. Of course at the same time though we don't want to build a lemon iykwim?

1b. If we do end up having to move we are aware that extensions don't always pay for themselves. We are also aware that doing this puts our house into an "expensive for just 3 beds" bracket. However, even as prices are falling we are very fortunate to have some equity in the house. As long as we add some value and don't completely chuck away £30,000 it's a risk we are okay with.

2. Someone mentioned about knocking the hall cupboard through to be a better walkway into the back of the house. We decided against this mainly because we enjoy having the cupboard there for coats, the hoover, pushchair etc. Plus, we're used to having to walk through the living room to get to places. It didn't occur to us that it might be an issue when we bought the house, so although its maybe not an ideal layout i am sure it won't be too detrimental. Also, the french windows at the back make for an extra way in.

3. This plan involves going back 4 meters instead of 3. It means a planning application, but there is plenty of precedent on our street with loads of extensions, so fingers crossed it shouldn't be a problem. Cost wise it does involve more money, but could be offset by not needing as big an RSJ since we can leave part of the back wall in place and also not having to get a new window in the playroom cause the room width now allows us to leave the existing one in place.

4. Not sure where to place the utility and shower room. Shower closer to living room or utility closer?

5. Do utility rooms usually have windows? Never had one before.

6. I figured that the kitchen was the best thing to put in that awkward middle-of-the-house space. Then it doesn't matter so much if it's a bit of a walkway because kitchens can be like that. Also, there is always plenty of lighting in a kitchen, so it won't be such an odd thing if we have to put lights on to see a little.

7. The playroom will have double glass doors so that light will come in from that window to the kitchen. Also, when the kids have flown the nest that will become a formal dining area, rather than a random space. I can keep the doors open when i'm cooking to keep my eye on the kiddos, but equally while they are still young i can put up a wide baby gate to keep them in there with their toys while i cook.

8. How much more expensive do you think this would be to do than the first version i put up?

Erm... I think that's it. Any and all feedback is always appreciated. Such a big deal!!!

New plan:

DVardysShadow

Stop off there for a bit and think about what can be done. Your kitchen should ideally be entirely within the extension, or include a substantial part of the existing house space. The reason is that you are going to have to support the external wall of the upstairs over the kitchen. It will be easier to use the current external wall as the back of your kitchen. Otherwise you will have to have some sort of support for the RSJ you will need somewhere in the middle of your units near the pink arrow [as well as at the other end of your pink line. Much easier to leave the existing wall in place - and much more sound structurally. Possibly, with the money you save, you could afford planning permission for another half metre of extension?

uropachild

Thank you! That's definitely something to think about... An extra 1/2 meter along the back would be roughly (very roughly) another £3500 or so though (working on £1300 per square meter. I don't think an RSJ would cost more than £1000, would it?

iamcornholio

uropachild wrote: »

My fear is that they will get into the kitchen and manage to hurt themselves,

I don't mean to be harsh, but you can't design out this scenario. The solution comes down to parenting

With regards to room layouts, you should work this out on the concept of circulation space and living space. But your options are limited and the kids area is always going to be part circulation space too (to the rear of the property)

The only other option would be to have the kids room in the upper part of the extension, which could then be separted from the kitchen via a partition, then the kitchen in the lower part of the extension and the diner where the kids play area is.

Then as the kids grow, if need be this room can be converted to a utility or the partition removed to enlarge the kitchen

Or put the kids in the shower room and part of the office, move the office down to part of the kids room, have the kitchen diner in the extension and part of the kids room, and the shower room in the upper part of the extension with lobby access to the rear so everyone does not come tramping through the kitchen from the garden

Josepina

I'm not keen on the fact that you have to walk thru lounge n kids room to get to kitchen, lounge carpet will get filthy. Also where are your stairs? Lastly will you use a shower downstairs, I can understand toilet/ washbasin but shower?
Anyway I think extend hallway to avoid walking thru lounge, put dining area where kids room is, kitchen in dining area then office n kids room where kitchen is.
Hope this helps

uropachild

That's all really helpful, thank you. Some food for thought!

jennifernil

I think I would move.

ormus

just playing about with it to try other ideas. the dining/kitchen wall can be any size you like. ie archway or double doors?
kitchen back wall prob needs a window and a back door?
the office/dining wall could be moved either way. ie a smaller office to bring the wall into line with the lounge/hallway wall?

uropachild

jennifernil wrote: »

I think I would move.

Yeah, we really toyed with that idea for ages. Thing is we LOVE where we are. Perfect street, perfect area. Just the house is too small for what we want.

To move we are looking at waiting for a house to come up in this same area - so that could take a while. The houses that are on the market already would require an increase to our mortgage of around £50,000 (ours would realistically sell for £130-135,000 & a 4 bed would be £180,000 at the very least). Plus of course the fees for stamp, solicitors, estate agents etc., which would be about £6,000.

Compare that to the £30,000 we will be paying for an extension and it wins. It's still more on our mortgage and a huge hassle for a few months, but we get to stay in this house and we get the extra room we need.

We just need to figure out how to do it right.

Unfortunately we can't extend to the side as our un-joined-on neighbours already have a side extension and i don't want to devalue the four semi's by making them townhouses if you know what i mean.

I don't know. Maybe we want too much? Perhaps we should look at just having a kids room without the office and pack away our guitars and craft stuff until they grow up and down need it anymore? I would much rather get it spot on that blindly plan something that is completely !!!! and leaves us with annoyingly unuseable space that we have to look at and get annoyed with every day of our lives.

uropachild

Thanks so much ormus!

I did think about putting the kitchen where you have it, but decided against that (although could be swayed again of course) because i figured that moving it to the other side of the house - completely away from it's original position where it is now would involve a lot more cost - laying pipework etc.

Also, the kids play area could do with being closer to the living room. It's not that i want to shut the kids away but it would be nice that there is somewhere to keep all their toys and a TV for them etc. But, if it's too far away from where i will be then i wouldn't be able to keep an eye on them. Although, on saying that, i could put the office at the back and the playroom where the office is...

uropachild

iamcornholio wrote: »

I don't mean to be harsh, but you can't design out this scenario. The solution comes down to parenting

With regards to room layouts, you should work this out on the concept of circulation space and living space. But your options are limited and the kids area is always going to be part circulation space too (to the rear of the property)

The only other option would be to have the kids room in the upper part of the extension, which could then be separted from the kitchen via a partition, then the kitchen in the lower part of the extension and the diner where the kids play area is.

Then as the kids grow, if need be this room can be converted to a utility or the partition removed to enlarge the kitchen

Or put the kids in the shower room and part of the office, move the office down to part of the kids room, have the kitchen diner in the extension and part of the kids room, and the shower room in the upper part of the extension with lobby access to the rear so everyone does not come tramping through the kitchen from the garden

Oh yeah, i totally get that about the parenting! But, i don't want to make it harder for myself all the same. I can make the kitchen as safe as humanly possible, but kids are kids and they WILL think it's funny to go in there and empty my cupboards all over or play in the bin or something when i turn my back. If i can just make it separate somehow without blocking all light i think i would be happier.

The reason the shower room is where it is, is because it's a really awkward space. It's where the stairs go up to the first floor - they start in the entrance hall against that top wall on the drawing and then half of them poke out in to what is now the kitchen / what will be the shower room. I think that's the only part of the plan i would definitely keep as it is.

We could just have a loo there, but since the space is awkward anyway and the only way you are able to block it off includes enough room for a shower regardless of whether we need one we figured we might as well. Plus, it will just be handy for us as a family, you know. We don't have any en suites upstairs, just the one family bathroom.