Sick leave and Annual leave

Glittermonkey

Hi all,

Need some advice for my ex-partner please, so sorry If I dont know all the facts.

In Feb 09 he went for an operation and was off work until about Sep 09. (He works for a Council)

His GP signed him fit to return to work but the company GP wouldn't as they hadn't found light duties for him. Eventually they found "light" duties which is actually a harder job than he had previously, but thats a different story!

His HR Dept suggested easing him back in as he had been off for so long and start him off on 3 day weeks for 2-3 weeks, then back in the full 5 days.

He booked some annual leave in Jan and has been called on for a meeting today to discuss his job, his ongoing problems as he needs another operation and the annual leave.

Apparently he doesn't have any holiday left and the holiday he took in Jan was not authorised as he didnt have 5 days left.

They have informed him that when he was working 3 day weeks, the other 2 days they booked as annual leave. Is this allowed? He never asked for this, it was their suggestion. The company Doctor and his GP signed him fit to return, they never said fit to return but only for 3 days a week.

He has delayed his second operation as he hasn't built enough sick pay back up, they've told him he has 2 weeks worth of sick pay so he cant afford to be unpaid anymore. They have suggested that he has the 2 weeks sick and then take his annual leave if he needs more time to recover. He told them he wouldn't do that as he needs annual leave to care for our 7 year old DD. (We take annual leave opposite each other to ensure we cover half terms, summer holidays, training days etc)

They have also lost his annual leave record and he doesn't have them written down either.

He tried to join the union after his operation but they've told him he can join but they wouldn't be able to help with this situation as it has been going on since before he became a member.

He is in a meeting now, and has taken somebody with him. But are they allowed to suggest that he does this? (Btw, he has been there 7 years and has about 25 days A/L plus B/H)

Thanks.

jdturk

Glittermonkey wrote: »

Hi all,

Need some advice for my ex-partner please, so sorry If I dont know all the facts.

In Feb 09 he went for an operation and was off work until about Sep 09. (He works for a Council)

His GP signed him fit to return to work but the company GP wouldn't as they hadn't found light duties for him. Eventually they found "light" duties which is actually a harder job than he had previously, but thats a different story!

His HR Dept suggested easing him back in as he had been off for so long and start him off on 3 day weeks for 2-3 weeks, then back in the full 5 days. He probably did agree to this, what else do you expect a company to do, they tried to not jolt him straight back to work so offered this compromise

He booked some annual leave in Jan and has been called on for a meeting today to discuss his job, his ongoing problems as he needs another operation and the annual leave.

Apparently he doesn't have any holiday left and the holiday he took in Jan was not authorised as he didnt have 5 days left.

They have informed him that when he was working 3 day weeks, the other 2 days they booked as annual leave. Is this allowed? He never asked for this, it was their suggestion. The company Doctor and his GP signed him fit to return, they never said fit to return but only for 3 days a week.

He has delayed his second operation as he hasn't built enough sick pay back up, they've told him he has 2 weeks worth of sick pay so he cant afford to be unpaid anymore. They have suggested that he has the 2 weeks sick and then take his annual leave if he needs more time to recover. He told them he wouldn't do that as he needs annual leave to care for our 7 year old DD. (We take annual leave opposite each other to ensure we cover half terms, summer holidays, training days etc)

They have also lost his annual leave record and he doesn't have them written down either.

He tried to join the union after his operation but they've told him he can join but they wouldn't be able to help with this situation as it has been going on since before he became a member.

He is in a meeting now, and has taken somebody with him. But are they allowed to suggest that he does this? (Btw, he has been there 7 years and has about 25 days A/L plus B/H)

Thanks.

If he has ongoing problems then the company can look at going down the 'capability route', if he isn't capable of doing the job they can dismiss him

jdturk

he should be still entitled to take whatever sick pay is needed(according to doctors notes et) but it may only be SSP after the two weeks

Phone ACAS for better advice

Glittermonkey

jdturk wrote: »

If he has ongoing problems then the company can look at going down the 'capability route', if he isn't capable of doing the job they can dismiss him

He is capable of doing his job, he is just in pain while doing it. He has been back since September without time off.

He has developed a cyst on his knee since the operation last year so needs to be readmitted to remove it.

jdturk

Glittermonkey wrote: »

He is capable of doing his job, he is just in pain while doing it. He has been back since September without time off.

He has developed a cyst on his knee since the operation last year so needs to be readmitted to remove it.

Thats good to hear but what do you want your EX to do?

The company will look at the capability route of things, and if your Ex has been of for a long period and expected to be of again its reasonable for the company to explore if this is going to keep happening and costing the company time resources, creating a bad atmosphere with fellow employees etc etc

Glittermonkey

jdturk wrote: »

he should be still entitled to take whatever sick pay is needed(according to doctors notes et) but it may only be SSP after the two weeks

Phone ACAS for better advice

I've told him to call ACAS tonight and double check.

He was told he needed a full year clear of any sick leave until he is entitled to hsi 6 months of full pay, at the moment he gets 2 weeks. I dont know if asked about SSP as towards the end of his sick leave last year he wasn't getting anything which has got him into real trouble. (Until the hospital open his knee up they aren't sure if they can do it by keyhole, if so he will be back within 2 weeks, if not they have to cut the tendons etc so will be off longer)

jdturk

I don't envy him at all but get him to call ACAS that can go through everything with them and they can hear all the information and guide him appropiately

Glittermonkey

jdturk wrote: »

Thats good to hear but what do you want your EX to do?

The company will look at the capability route of things, and if your Ex has been of for a long period and expected to be of again its reasonable for the company to explore if this is going to keep happening and costing the company time resources, creating a bad atmosphere with fellow employees etc etc

My other post answers how long he may be off for.

I just wondered if the council can force him to use his annual leave to recover from a medical operation.

Maybe I am lucky with who I work for as I know they'd never dream of suggesting that.

jdturk

tbh I would suggest that to an employee if they knew that the employee won't be getting money from sick pay as it may keep the employees wage packet up. I don't see anything particularly wrong with giving that option however I think your Ex is quite within his rights to say 'no I will use the remaining sick pay and then either go unpaid sick or SSP depending on his situation

Uncertain

Glittermonkey wrote: »

My other post answers how long he may be off for.

I just wondered if the council can force him to use his annual leave to recover from a medical operation.

No, I don't think they can.

However, obviously whist a doctor is willing to issue certificates he can be off sick. Once company sick pay, if any, runs out he will only get SSP.

Whilst off sick he still accrues paid holiday at at least the statutory rate (28 days per year).

As jdturk (rather bluntly) pointed out if he is off sick long term or has had lots of sick leave they can move to terminate his employment on capability grounds. To cover themselves they need to take careful steps here.

It would be normal for the employer to ASK if he wanted to use any holiday during the time he would otherwise only be getting SSP.

If he can manage without the money in the short term and thinks they may terminate his employment he would be better to hold on to the holiday as they would have to pay him for it after he leaves.

Not easy I'm afraid

Glittermonkey

I think you're right in saying it's ok to suggest it, but this is now the 4th or 5th meeting they've now said it.

The hospital have written a letter to say he can go back anytime within the next 6 months for the operation without having to be referred, so he is happy to wait and carry on working .

I just think its very convenient that they have lost his annual leave record and have told him today that the holiday he took in Jan is now unpaid because his holiday was used when he returned to work. His short weeks were only for 2 -3 weeks so even then he hasn't used all his 25 days by doing that.

Probably selfish of me but I am slightly worried about how it'll affect me and my DD. My job involves travel at times and I dont have enough leave to cover all school holidays. My daughter has behaviour problems which have been better controlled since she was removed from the childminder.

I've told him to get anything in writing that he or they agree to and from now on keep a better record of his annual leave. If he feels that it is unresoved or has any issues then go to ACAS.