Sick leave and Annual leave

beccam

I'm not totally sure about this as it depends on the company's policy/procedure but I work in public sector and there is such a thing as a "phased return" this means that if Occupational Health feel you need to be phased back to work they can advise HR and manager and you can then work out a time scale to return, working up to full time whilst still getting normal pay and not using annual leave. However this is at managers discretion and they can easily say no, I would assume if they wanted him to use annual leave then this should have been clearly discussed in his return to work interview (if he had one?)

If there has been a return to work form completed then it should state any plans/interventions/next steps which would clarify if the A/L was to be used or if they have changed their mind somewhere along the line. This would seem to me to be the best way of "fighting" it as it should have been written somewhere and signed as agreed by him.

He will be entitled to Stat sick pay (its not much) the form can be obtained from GP. If he pays mortgage would insurance cover this if he's off sick again?

Also I found salaries and wages were more able to answer my questions when I was off on long term sick than personnel were as I had been informed I would go onto half pay as soon as I was off as I had a previous episode of long term sick, however when I rang salaries and wages they informed me the system worked on a "rolling year" basis which meant I was actually entitled to 4.5mths of sick pay. Still don't fully understand it but I wasn't complaining!

In short, tell him to check policy regarding returning to work.....forms he should complete, meeting with manager, written return to work form etc, if these weren't done then there is nothing to say he agreed to use his leave.
Tell him to double check with wages re sick pay and how it works.

Glittermonkey

Uncertain wrote: »

No, I don't think they can.

However, obviously whist a doctor is willing to issue certificates he can be off sick. Once company sick pay, if any, runs out he will only get SSP.

Whilst off sick he still accrues paid holiday at at least the statutory rate (28 days per year).

As jdturk (rather bluntly) pointed out if he is off sick long term or has had lots of sick leave they can move to terminate his employment on capability grounds. To cover themselves they need to take careful steps here.

It would be normal for the employer to ASK if he wanted to use any holiday during the time he would otherwise only be getting SSP.

If he can manage without the money in the short term and thinks they may terminate his employment he would be better to hold on to the holiday as they would have to pay him for it after he leaves.

Not easy I'm afraid

The spell of sick last year was the only one in 7 years other than an odd here and there with normal problems. Hopefully the fact he has been working back for them since Sep including overtime etc shows he is still capable of doing his role. I would hope they aren't looking at terminating him, but you can never be too sure these days.

His normal job is drainage technician so he cant do that as they are worried he will lift a heavy drain and damage his knee, so they've had him out gritting, leaf blowing etc. All of which has him standing all day, least with the drains he got to sit down between jobs. (really this should read spending the majority of the day in the cafe:rotfl:)

Glittermonkey

beccam wrote: »

I'm not totally sure about this as it depends on the company's policy/procedure but I work in public sector and there is such a thing as a "phased return" this means that if Occupational Health feel you need to be phased back to work they can advise HR and manager and you can then work out a time scale to return, working up to full time whilst still getting normal pay and not using annual leave. However this is at managers discretion and they can easily say no, I would assume if they wanted him to use annual leave then this should have been clearly discussed in his return to work interview (if he had one?)
He had many interviews when planning on returning, mainly because the work GP and his proper GP didnt agree on him returning and to what duties. It was only after he had returned the cyst was discovered. I will tell him to get any copies of any RTW interviews.

If there has been a return to work form completed then it should state any plans/interventions/next steps which would clarify if the A/L was to be used or if they have changed their mind somewhere along the line. This would seem to me to be the best way of "fighting" it as it should have been written somewhere and signed as agreed by him.

He will be entitled to Stat sick pay (its not much) the form can be obtained from GP. If he pays mortgage would insurance cover this if he's off sick again?

Also I found salaries and wages were more able to answer my questions when I was off on long term sick than personnel were as I had been informed I would go onto half pay as soon as I was off as I had a previous episode of long term sick, however when I rang salaries and wages they informed me the system worked on a "rolling year" basis which meant I was actually entitled to 4.5mths of sick pay. Still don't fully understand it but I wasn't complaining!
I think his council work on a rolling year too. This is where they've told him he needs to wait until Sep to get his full entitlement, at the moment its 2 weeks.

In short, tell him to check policy regarding returning to work.....forms he should complete, meeting with manager, written return to work form etc, if these weren't done then there is nothing to say he agreed to use his leave.
Tell him to double check with wages re sick pay and how it works.

Thanks for this.

wynnvegas

I think a few of the answers you've received are a bit blunt and, having worked in public sector HR for a number of years, I know how much of a pushover these organisations tend to be.

Joining a union or not, it shouldn't make a great deal of difference as what has happened is likely to be very clearly against the council's policy on Absence Management (often referred to as Promoting Attendance in the public sector).

I would advice getting the applicable Absence Management Policy and the Management of Employee Capability Policy from the Council HR Department. Phasing people back in is fairly common and, as someone noted earlier, in the public sector it is normally over a period of no more than twelve weeks, all of which are occasionally paid at 100% of normal salary. If the council's stated policy is that phased returns can be topped up with annual leave then that is fine - it is the responsibility of the employer to document that type of agreement and have it signed as agreed by the employee so the long and rambling answer that this has become to your question is that they have not done the right thing in forcing his annual leave to be used and they should certainly not be looking to further punish your ex-partner. By the sound of things, the department (again, not uncommonly) is not particularly well organised and, if they cannot evidence his annual leave record over the last year (and obviously, without request and authorisation forms they won't be able to) then this is very much their problem and he should stand his ground.

Once he has the policies and knows exactly where he stands, he should take this up with the relevant HR Advisor and, if no satisfactory outcome arises from that, he should raise a formal grievance detailing the story as you have whereupon I would expect a Senior HR bod in the council to see sense and sort it out equitably.

Cheers,

Billy

Glittermonkey

Billy,

Many thanks for that. Great information for me to pass on and for him to get.

Anihilator

In all honesty I think there approach is fair. Your OH is deliberately choosing to delay his proper return to qualify for OSP but expects them to pay him to do light duties/reduced days until this happens.

Glittermonkey

Anihilator wrote: »

In all honesty I think there approach is fair. Your OH is deliberately choosing to delay his proper return to qualify for OSP but expects them to pay him to do light duties/reduced days until this happens.

He (ex not oh) has returned to work properly and has been full time 5 days a week, including overtime on weekends since October. If you read the above his light duties are far from light and involve more pressure on his leg than his previous role.

I just dont see why he needs to use his A/L for an operation that he cant afford to be unpaid for. when he and the hospital are both willing to delay it.

Glittermonkey

He has had a meeting today and they have asked for him to get his operation done ASAP and use A/L if needed.

They have told him that they will be bringing his current role to an end, as they are recruiting and will need him back on his previous role. If the operation is not done by then, then they will look at his employment.

He has asked for this in writing, so they will get this to him at some point this week hopefully.

I will write down the advice from Billy, get him to request any RTW's and take it from there.

Anihilator

Glittermonkey wrote: »

He has had a meeting today and they have asked for him to get his operation done ASAP and use A/L if needed.

They have told him that they will be bringing his current role to an end, as they are recruiting and will need him back on his previous role. If the operation is not done by then, then they will look at his employment.

He has asked for this in writing, so they will get this to him at some point this week hopefully.

I will write down the advice from Billy, get him to request any RTW's and take it from there.

Seems fair.
I dont think it is reasonable for him to deliberately delay the operation without medical reasons.

Savvy_Sue

If they have lost his holiday record, how hard would it be for him to reconstruct it?

Say he has 28 days (including bank holidays) and the holiday year runs from January to December. Did he take any leave before he went sick last year? Did he take any leave after he returned to work full-time? If they can't show when he took leave, and he can show when he says he did, surely his version wins?

There's a more complicated question though about whether he carried forward any holiday from one year to the next: normally there's a 5 day limit, and it has to be taken within 3 months of the new leave year starting, and it may need his manager's authorisation.

Incidentally, when I was in the public sector we had a three part form for holidays: you gave white and pink copies to the manager and kept a yellow copy for yourself, and once it was approved they gave the pink copy back to you. So you could prove what holiday you'd asked for, and once it had been granted you could prove that as well! Does he have that system too?

And when I had a phased return, I worked the days I could and was counted as sick for the days I couldn't. As I was still on full CSP at the time this worked for everyone. Our payroll provider was a bit dubious initially, I think because they'd never known anyone do this before, but my managers were fine with it because I think they realised I'd never get back if it was 5 days or nothing!