could we ever fix this condensation problem? help pls!

pigeonpie

After 5 years of looking, we finally have seen a small flat we like in a lovely town and small, well kept block in SW France. It's perfect (most flats there are dire & need €€€ of work) except the bedroom has yellow patches on the ceiling (it does not smell damp). It's raised ground floor, the bedroom is east facing - probably no sun as it's too low - with a pvc double glazed window and the owner takes great care of her flat but says she painted the ceiling and the problem came back and now she just wipes it with a sponge when necessary. She cooks a lot in the (fairly nearby: it's ±60m2 in total) kitchen, which does not have the problem. Nor does the lounge, which has 2 french doors going out to a south facing terrace area. She does not heat the bedroom very much as it's fairly warm in there. We visited in Jan when it was cold and it was a comfortable temp in the bedroom. She lives there all year round as does her 1st floor upstairs neighbour, which is unusual in that town, so it's not been shut up for months etc. Under her flat are the 'caves', ie the storage cupboard areas, at basement level.

We contacted a french 'bureau de controle' who can do a visual inspection and measure damp and the guy spoke to me at length about condensation being caused mostly by people's way of life and inadequate heating and ventilation. He seemed relaxed about it as an issue (prior to visiting). It would cost 600€ for him to go there and do a full report.
We can only get him to go if we put in an offer which is accepted.

We are worried that creating ventilation (what the french call VMCs..extractors) and leaving the electric heating on a timer (it would be a holiday home flat) would not get rid of the problem and that condensation in a ground floor flat is something that you can possibly control but never eradicate. It being the bedroom makes us more worried than if it was kitchen or bathroom. If it wasn't such an unusually great flat, we'd just walk away but it's really nice....but we don't want to buy either a problem or something that makes us sick as we breathe in moisture all night.

A long explanation for the question: can you ever really get rid of a condensation problem and if so, how?

thanks for any help. We have to either make an offer or drop it on saturday.

bryanb

You are more likely to be breathing out the moisture than breathing it in.
The French guy is right, Inadequate ventilation is the main cause, but when you are absent the problem should not be so bad, as you're not creating the moisture

Owain_Moneysaver

Yellow patches sounds more like a plumbing leak than condensation :-(

pigeonpie

no, it's definitely not a plumbing leak. The owner says she wipes the ceiling with a sponge when necessary. I just hope to be able to work out whether what it is is able to be eliminated as it's not something that seems too good to live with. Half of me wants to walk away and half to go ahead and hope it works out.
I couldn't see any obvious reason why it's only the bedroom, not the bathroom behind it (which has a shower & window).
If you have a room that is prone to condensation, does it have to stay that way or usually stay that way?

iamcornholio

Some properties are more susceptible to condensation issues, and however much heating and ventilating is tried, things don't seem to stop it

If removing the cold surface by fitting an insulation board can't be done or does not help, then the best option is to fit a possitive pressure fan in the property

These work by bringing in air from outside and slowly pumping this in and around the property, and this air then takes humid air out via natural gaps or vents. They are very cheap to run, you hardly hear them and dont feel any draughts.

Google for possitive pressure fan, lofty, envirovent

These are very effective at solving typical condensation and mould problems

DVardysShadow

Condensation lands on the coldest spot. Is the ceiling well insulated?

KathysBoy

I have a house in Spain where condensation can also be a problem because of the type of construction.

Firstly, although it doesn't sound right, you do get more condensation when you live there more or less all the time. This is because as said before you breathe and cook and generally put moisture into the air all the time. In Spain the worst time is Octoberish around about the "Gota Fria" when the cool air comes in, and because the warm air has absorbed so much moisture during the summer it literally dumps it in about 3 days of rain. This also cools down the house and mould can literally grow on your walls over 2/3 days if you don't watch it. Wiping down the walls with a bleach mix gets rid of it, and generally stops its reoccurring (I think Dettol do a "mould and mildew" spray (in a green bottle).

However, for a more permanent cure I painted the walls with anti humidity paint. It was about €45 for a 5 litre tin. I left it for 24 hours to dry (its a sort of matt white, and looks okay, but I felt it needed repainting) and repainted it with the local plastico paint (emulsion). It works a treat. In the room I did we had nothing at all. Be warned if you use it, you need to wear a mask, otherwise you'll end up feeling dizzy because of the fumes. You also need to keep the windows open for a day or so. Once its dry there are no fumes.

The other thing I bought is a portable dehumidifer. I run this occasionally to make sure the humidity is kept down (and also to dry the washing indoors during the winter)

We've been away for the last 3 months, but when I popped over a couple of weeks ago, everything was fine.

pigeonpie

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Condensation lands on the coldest spot. Is the ceiling well insulated?

wouldn't have thought so. It's a 1980s building and you can hear the neighbours upstairs vacuum cleaner so probably just plaster board ceilings.

thanks for the other info. I will have to find someone very bilingual to get the french for a positive pressure fan, although if we DO get the place, is this a portable thing or does it have to be wall fitted by an electrician?

On the paint issue: def something to buy in England (or across the border in Spain, from what you say). French paint is all whitewash style emulsion - come to think of it, that probably doesn't help with the condensation patches.
i feel a bit more positive, thanks so much everyone. Now *all* that's left is for madame to take our offer...!

Waldir

pigeonpie wrote: »

I will have to find someone very bilingual to get the french for a positive pressure fan

ventilation à pression positive (VPP)
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilation_op%C3%A9rationnelle

KathysBoy

pigeonpie wrote: »

wouldn't have thought so. It's a 1980s building and you can hear the neighbours upstairs vacuum cleaner so probably just plaster board ceilings.

thanks for the other info. I will have to find someone very bilingual to get the french for a positive pressure fan, although if we DO get the place, is this a portable thing or does it have to be wall fitted by an electrician?

On the paint issue: def something to buy in England (or across the border in Spain, from what you say). French paint is all whitewash style emulsion - come to think of it, that probably doesn't help with the condensation patches.
i feel a bit more positive, thanks so much everyone. Now *all* that's left is for madame to take our offer...!

This is the link to the paint I used in Spain. I personally only buy Titan paint as I find it to be the best quality (although there are others). Just select "Professional" from the menu on the left, the second one from the product range "...Anti dampness", and the second one from the range "...Anti dampness". This is the translated version. Its called "Pintura Anti-Humedad". If you do buy it in Spain you need to go to a trade type paint outlet rather than a DIY, as they don't tend to sell the large tins at DIY.

Good luck !. Remember to use a mask when you use it, I didn't the first time, and I had to sit outside for 30 minutes before I could continue.

bigyorkshireman

For a good explanation of condensation and some advice on what you can do to help prevent condensation (and black spot mould) have a look at the condensation pages on the Timberwise website.

Great advice and a handy couple of videos giving advice.....