Disciplinary hearing next week

dickydonkin

He is particularly worried because the two people who will be carrying out the disciplinary hearing, are well known (among the other employees) to dislike my son, and his concern is that they will use this as an excuse to get rid of him.

Hootie19

As you alluded to in your initial posting, your son is obviously aware of an impending hearing, however, this seems to have been communicated verbally.


Your quote above seems to indicate that he is aware of the attendees who will be conducting the hearing on behalf of the company. Such details including all other relevant information relating to the hearing should be in writing.


As the workplace is a retail outlet and part of a large chain, I am wondering if this hearing will be held within those premises and by the staff within the shop - or will include an HR representative to attend from head or regional office.


Hopefully, it will be the latter scenario because as I mentioned in my previous post, this situation could also be embarrassing for the manager involved based of course on the limited information posted.

He will be entitled to allow a colleague and any witness to attend - ideally, one who can confirm that the abuse of security details is a routine violation and that the manager is aware of such abuse - then you can use the argument that SILENCE IS CONSENT - although, remember, two wrongs do not make a right, however, your son will need to convince the hearing that he was not aware of any wrongdoing.

He will most likely be asked if he was aware of breaking any company procedure.

If he had only been informed verbally of any requirements, then he can answer no and cite that he misinterpreted/misunderstood any verbal communication. If no written policy was issued relating to the acccusation, then that strengthens his argument, however, if one was issued, I would still claim that the written requirements were misunderstood and/or misinterpreted.


Can he give evidence that routine abuse was ongoing? ie provide details on how access is gained to till information when no authorised personnel is available - I am sure that in a busy retail outlet, such personnel are not available at all times.


Why are the people who will be attending the hearing seem to dislike your son? Is there 'history' or more worryingly, any previous disciplinary incidents?


If 'they dislike' your son, that could suggest they know him well for the wrong reasons and would indicate that the hearing is going to be held 'in house' with no company HR representative attending.

If a company HR representative IS attending, then how has that person come to 'dislike' your son?


Until all of the details are forthcoming, there is not much more anyone can add, however, I would suggest your son has a read through the company's disciplinary procedure and ensure that everything is above board procedure wise and prepare all required evidence for the hearing.

BTW - is there any indiction as to what your son has been officially accused of?

It should say that he can take a union rep or colleague, but it would be extremely unusual if it allowed anyone other than that.

Let's not forget any witnesses - although if any witnesses are to attend, it would be wise to inform the employer prior to the hearing.

dickydonkin

HMMMMmmmmmmmmmm.

The OP has not come back on this with more information as promised.

I wonder if all was not as it first seemed?

Zazen999

dpassmore wrote: »

HMMMMmmmmmmmmmm.

The OP has not come back on this with more information as promised.

I wonder if all was not as it first seemed?

It often isn't......can't have been all that urgent or important then can it!!!

Hootie19

Letter received from the company this morning, saying:



Dear

Notification of disciplinary hearing

I am writing to confirm that you are required to attend a disciplinary hearing on Monday 15 February 2010 at 9am which is to be held in the xxxxxxx branch. At this hearing, the question of disciplinary action against you, in accordance with the Company's Discriplinary Procedure, will be considered with regard to:

Misuse of management password and performance related issues

I remind you of your right under the Disciplinary Procedure to be accompanied at this hearing by a fellow employee who may act as your witness or representative. Alternatively you have a statutory right to be accompanied by a trade union official if you so choose.

Yours sincerely

xxxxxx
Area Manager
(Dictated by xxxxxxxx and signed on her behalf)

Hootie19

Sorry, didn't update as we were waiting for the letter to come, as posted above.

He was never told, either verbally or in writing, not to use the manager's log in details. The staff know the details just from watching the manager input them.

He's not sure why the divisional manager dislikes him so much. This manager has had "issues" with my son wearing trainers to walk to work, then changing into formal footwear for work, then changing into trainers to walk home again. When "someone" (never revealed who - other staff or customer) reported to the manager that my son was seen "sitting on a freezer texting on his mobile phone" (untrue) the manager reduced his working hours from 37 a week to 15. My son spoke to head office, and susbequently his hours were increased to 20 a week.

He has still been working on the tills since this all blew up.

Not that it's relevant probably, but it is not unusual for my son to work 8-10 hours without a break. He has also (in the past) been sent to the bank to bank the day's takings.

He has asked for a copy of the company's disciplinary procedure and also a copy of his contract. His manager said he will sort these out for him.



My friend, who is quite knowledgeable about employee's rights, wants to accompany him to this meeting. Is it set in "law" that an "outsider" is not allowed to accompany him, and it can only be a colleague or union rep?

jdturk

Hootie19 wrote: »

Sorry, didn't update as we were waiting for the letter to come, as posted above.

He was never told, either verbally or in writing, not to use the manager's log in details. The staff know the details just from watching the manager input them. If I didn't tell you to jump of a cliff would you still jump of a cliff?

He's not sure why the divisional manager dislikes him so much. This manager has had "issues" with my son wearing trainers to walk to work, then changing into formal footwear for work, then changing into trainers to walk home again. When "someone" (never revealed who - other staff or customer) reported to the manager that my son was seen "sitting on a freezer texting on his mobile phone" (untrue) the manager reduced his working hours from 37 a week to 15. My son spoke to head office, and susbequently his hours were increased to 20 a week. If the hours were a change of contract he should have objected there and then and asked for the hours back, however as he has accepted the 20 hours there may not be alot he can do.

He has still been working on the tills since this all blew up.

Not that it's relevant probably, but it is not unusual for my son to work 8-10 hours without a break. He has also (in the past) been sent to the bank to bank the day's takings.He is entitled to breaks obviously but if on the odd day things are busy people tend to work through them. He can turn around and say he is entitled to them and would want to take them but thats upto him. The thing about the banking is pointless as far as I can see

He has asked for a copy of the company's disciplinary procedure and also a copy of his contract. His manager said he will sort these out for him.



My friend, who is quite knowledgeable about employee's rights, wants to accompany him to this meeting. Is it set in "law" that an "outsider" is not allowed to accompany him, and it can only be a colleague or union rep?

I think that unless the company state someone else can accompany your son it has to be an employee or a union rep. They are there for eyes and ears only, not to start an arguement with the interviewer, if the interviewer messes up you take it further down a differant route

Hope that helps

WeakHeart

He only has the right to be accompanied by a colleague or a Trade Union rep. A few companies are happy to be more flexible but given the wording on the letter I doubt that your friend can attend.

The allegation of misusing the password is understood from your previous posts but what about the performance related issues? Does your son know what is being referred to here?

Hootie19

He says the only performance related things he can think of is that he sometimes forgets his name badge, and that one occasion he didn't date-rotate some frozen products.

jdturk - I only mentioned the banking thing, not as having any relevance to the present situation, but to illustrate that they clearly trusted him with large sums of money.

We have been told that he can delay the meeting due to the fact that they have not given him reasonable notice of the date of the meeting, and that they have not been specific as to what the performance related issues are.

My son isn't a member of a union and there is no staff member that he would particularly want to accompany him.


(Just as a mother's concern, and I know it is not relevant to the disciplinary hearing, I would add here that my son has attention deficit disorder, and has problems concentrating and absorbing information. This is not known to the company as far as I know. I really don't like the idea of him not having anyone in the meeting with him, as he is not very likely to completely take on board everything that is said to him, which is why I was very relieved when my friend offered to accompany him. I couldn't go myself (even if an outsider is allowed) as I am far too emotional and would very likely get tearful, which wouldn't help the situation at all!)

Hootie19

dpassmore wrote: »

I suspect the Grim Reaper (Anhilator) will have the black cap on his head as I write!

I have Anhilator on ignore, as their posts never seem to be particularly helpful, but just someone out to stir trouble! . Let them post to their heart's content!

dickydonkin

What a crap letter from a supposedly reputable company.

There is no indication as to who will be conducting the hearing or who will be in attendance (witnesses).

There is no indication of any investigations into the incident or indeed any findings from any investigation. This is important as it would give you the opportunity to prepare for your defence and give your view of the findings.

I notice there are accusations of 'performance related issues'.

If there was performance related issues that warranted disciplinary action, why have the company now decided to address these at the same time as the alleged 'main offence'?

I am assuming any performance related issues have been raised at a previous appraisal, if not, it would be difficult to cite this as a disciplinary matter if the employee has not been given the opportunity to rectify any previous shortcomings in his performance.

The performance of an employee (unless given previous warnings or improvement requirements from appraisals or disciplinaries) in my opinion is irrelevant to this incident.

Hootie19 - was your son suspended after the incident? If so, was there a letter confirming this and the reasons for suspension and did it differ from the reasons given on the hearing letter?

It looks as though the company is attempting a two pronged attack here - if they can't get him for one of the alleged offences, they will try to get him for another, although I hope I am wrong in that assertion.

I would ask for a copy of the company's Disciplinary procedures and I.T. policy and highlight the managers breaches and it would also give the opportunity to ascertain that the company have conformed to their own procedures (you would be surprised how often some companies fail to conform and the case has had to be dropped - well from my experiences anyway)

Maybe your best tactic is using an attack as your defence citing the disclosure by the manager of his personal password. He has obviously breached the policy by disclosing it and allowing its use.

It should indicate in an I.T. or company policy that it could be tantamount to gross misconduct to disclose passwords. It could also be argued that there are 'performance related issues' with the manager due to the fact he is not monitoring the companies policies and procedures - allowing all and sundry to use his password compounds that view.

Again, two wrongs don't make a right, but you could suggest you are being victimised as it is only you that is potentially being punished for basically the same offences committed by the manager - namely the breach of the company's I.T. policy and questionable performance.

I would suggest you seek appropriate legal advice - that may be available from your union or local CAB, although time may not allow for those options.
My views are how I would consider the situation based on the information that has been posted.

I have Anhilator on ignore, as their posts never seem to be particularly helpful, but just someone out to stir trouble! . Let them post to their heart's content!

There is no need to change your settings to ignore - most people ignore the posts anyway - For someone who is nearly always wrong and constantly embarrassed, I would have thought The Grim Reaper would have lied low well before know - still, he's always good for a laugh!