Intermittent BT line fault,Is it ADSL a or a VOICE fault?

dave54

Hi, since getting my Bt line installed some 3 years ago,I have not had that many issues with the line,
Around the same time last year a noise problem developed to an extent my broadband connection was dropping out every hour or more,i rang my isp,they then did some tests,and requested tests to carried out by bt,
the next day bb still unusable,i picked up the phone to ring the isp and i couldn't majke the call as presumably a BT engineer was carrying out a quiet line test,
this must of lasted for 30mins,after the crackling i was able to hear when router was connected had gone or was quieter,
bb staying synced,then around 1hr later a bt engineer at the door saying that my isp had reported a fault,i told him it appeared to of be fixed he did a quiet line test,and had a look at my line stats and said that if the fault wasn't present their wasn't much he was able to do, and that he was unaware of another engineer working on my line,

Over the last couple of months i have been having random drop outs again, not as frequent, it was every few days or once during a week, but is getting more frequent now,once every 36-48 hrs occasionally more,
I at times have heard noise on the line,the noise will increase and then decrease and stop for a while,somtimes this causes the router to loose sync,
the noise seems more obvious when the router is connected,
My set up: 1.bt master socket, no internall extensions,1,corded telephone,and a adsl router connected via a microfilter,

things that i have dsone to try and ensure that anything connected to the bt master socket is not at fault,
1, replaced router(new under warranty)
2,purchased a new corded phone
3,changed the adsl filers,
4,unscrewed faceplate and plugged in test socket

all have had no impact,my isp has had bt change the line card,and check things over,

where do i go from here?, is this fault a voice related fault that is causing a problem to my adsl service, or is it down to the adsl side of things soley,
my concern is if i log this as a voice fault to bt, and it turns out not to be ,will i get charged the callout fee? as i simply cannot afford it,plus i would still have the dam fault!
As the only other solution i can see is to see if my isp will request a engineer visit,as i think that they don't want do do that,as they will also be charged,
why bt the have the neck to charge for line rental for lines they clearley don't maintain properly

macman

If you have a line fault then it is the responsibilty of your line rental provider, not your ISP (if different).
Log it with BT as a line fault, if the fault is still present on your master socket then it is down to BT unless the damage is self inflcited, e.g. you've damaged the line outside when decorating or similar.
Do not say to BT that you have a broadband problem, just say there is noise on the line. If you mention a bb fault then they will try to refer you back to your ISP.

Farway

You can try your own quite test, in case you do not know how [sorry if you do], you need to have only the corded phone connected into master socket, no router etc

dial 17070, then follow instructions [press 2 I think], line should of course be silent, no buzzing etc

dave54

The problem being that the noise i'm able to hear/have heard would seem to be more audible when the adsl router is connected,
say i logged it as a voice fault with bt,they would send out somone who is trained in voice,they would not even look for an adsl fault, so it's possible that they may say no fault found,and bill me for the engineer callout,
so then i would be £100+ lighter in pocket and still have the fault causing the random dropouts(new line free until 16feb,or £124) still cheaper than engineer,
but the problem being the quality of the new line could be worse still
i would have no way of knowing untill adsl is enabled,

If my isp instructed bt to do a full check of the line from exchange to my home,they would more than likley find and fix the fault,but if it was found to be a voice fault they may get charged(and could well pass that on to me)
for now my isp,has changed my target snr values to see if that helps it hold sync better,before escalating to next tier of support who are able to get bt or it's own engineers to fault find (physically testing of the line by a human)

i have done lots of the quiet line tests too btw,at the moment the noise seems to be only audible when router is on and synced at exchange,

Colin_London

Do you use a cordless phone? They are often more susceptible to induced noise from an ADSL modem.

Also your ADSL filter may have developed a fault.

I had a similar problem and found that replacing the filter with a more expensive filter + surge protector version, then double filtering the phone with another standard ADSL filter, then putting RF chokes on the input to the cordless phone and on the power inputs to both the router and phone did the trick.

OK - a bit belt & braces but now I have a perfectly clear phone line and an ADSL2+ synch speed that is 3.5Mbps higher

dave54

Colin_London wrote: »

Do you use a cordless phone? They are often more susceptible to induced noise from an ADSL modem.

Also your ADSL filter may have developed a fault.

I had a similar problem and found that replacing the filter with a more expensive filter + surge protector version, then double filtering the phone with another standard ADSL filter, then putting RF chokes on the input to the cordless phone and on the power inputs to both the router and phone did the trick.

OK - a bit belt & braces but now I have a perfectly clear phone line and an ADSL2+ synch speed that is 3.5Mbps higher

Everything that is connected to the test socket is new,no internal extensions either,
my isp has ajusted the target noise margins, but this has not worked,
they can increase this to 12db (downstream) and as i did originally sync at around 9.5-10mb on adsl2+ i should not loose any sync speed,as im on adsl1 llu,8mb, they did suggest putting me on interleave and reducing my sync by half,that's a big NO.NO i'll quit both bb and phoneline first
but i suggested swapping me over to adsl2+ again, but with a capped downstream of 8mb, as the snr can be tweaked further on adsl2+ plus if i got them to switch on sra,i would be able to tweak it my self using the dmt tool and a netgear dg834 router or other compatable router

dave54

I have a question when running the bt quiet line test(17070 option2)

Should there be any other sound other than the recorded coice,"quiet line test" every 20seconds or so,during this test?

(with adsl router unplugged)i am able to hear a similar type of noise to an ambient background nise you would hear on a quiet night from distant traffic say, this is only aubible when line is doing quiet line test, as any other noise will mask it,

when adsl router is plugged in and is establishing a sync, i am able to hear it,fainlty,then this is somtimes followed by a load nise burst that will last for 5-10 secs then i goes,but this can also be heard at any random time,whilst adsl is on
hence my question do i have a voice fault,or is it a adsl fault?

either its a voice fault,that is affecting the adsl signal,
or it's a adsl fault that im able to hear due to the devices not being able to communicate as they should(isp dslam and adsl router)

dave54

dave54 wrote: »

Everything that is connected to the test socket is new,no internal extensions either,
my isp has ajusted the target noise margins, but this has not worked,
they can increase this to 12db (downstream) and as i did originally sync at around 9.5-10mb on adsl2+ i should not loose any sync speed,as im on adsl1 llu,8mb, they did suggest putting me on interleave and reducing my sync by half,that's a big NO.NO i'll quit both bb and phoneline first
but i suggested swapping me over to adsl2+ again, but with a capped downstream of 8mb, as the snr can be tweaked further on adsl2+ plus if i got them to switch on sra,i would be able to tweak it my self using the dmt tool and a netgear dg834 router or other compatable router

nearly forgot, the new phone is a corded phone,(bought for the purpose of testing) also i have tried changing the filter no difference at all,

BT_company_representative

Hi Dave54,

I am sorry to hear of the problems that you are having with your broadband, quite a predicament you are in.

From the voice side of things, the symptoms that you have explained could well point to a voice fault. If there is a PSTN fault then this will be causing issues with your broadband connection. What has your ISP said about this.

I am more than happy to run a few checks on your line to see if I can identify a fault. If however BT do find a fault on the voice side of things and send and engineer to investigate, if the fault is found to be within your own domain you will be liable for the call out charge. If however the fault is found between the exchange and the point where the line goes into your home, then BT will not charge you for the repair, unless of course you have done something to damage the line.

I understand your hesitation, so what I propose is that you drop me an email with your BT account details ( please see my profile for my email address). I will run a few checks on your line to see if anything stands out. Before I push on for an engineers visit I will discuss this with you in great detail and from that you can make an informed decision.

There is no guarantee that this is a line fault but at least we can rule this out so that you can go back to your ISP and say the line has been checked and all is fine or the opposite.

Cheers
Sean
BT Care

dave54

As i have already reported a fault to bt,and they ran their so called line checking utility,that found nothing,(as expected) and according to my isp, as well as a replacement line card being fitted a check on the line from my connected exchange was also carried out,again with no fault,? I doubt that it would show a fault now,presumably would be the same test?, my isp has again increased the target snr up from 9-1 to 12-1 db ,from the info produced by a app on my pc,this has made a minor change snr9-9.5db, but it used to always be 10-11db Until in December when this problem started,to begin with the loss of sync was around every7-10days but is now once every 24-36 hrs apart,there is also the option of putting me on their adsl2+ product at a capped 8mb as there is more tweakabllity with that apparently, although this i doubt would be a long term solution should the fault get worse,

dave54

BT_company_representative wrote: »

Hi Dave54,

I am sorry to hear of the problems that you are having with your broadband, quite a predicament you are in.

From the voice side of things, the symptoms that you have explained could well point to a voice fault. If there is a PSTN fault then this will be causing issues with your broadband connection. What has your ISP said about this.

I am more than happy to run a few checks on your line to see if I can identify a fault. If however BT do find a fault on the voice side of things and send and engineer to investigate, if the fault is found to be within your own domain you will be liable for the call out charge. If however the fault is found between the exchange and the point where the line goes into your home, then BT will not charge you for the repair, unless of course you have done something to damage the line.

I understand your hesitation, so what I propose is that you drop me an email with your BT account details ( please see my profile for my email address). I will run a few checks on your line to see if anything stands out. Before I push on for an engineers visit I will discuss this with you in great detail and from that you can make an informed decision.

There is no guarantee that this is a line fault but at least we can rule this out so that you can go back to your ISP and say the line has been checked and all is fine or the opposite.

Cheers
Sean
BT Care

Thanks for the reply, As i have already said here i have ,replaced everything that is connected to the line, everything is brand new,

i do not have any extentions connrected to the mastersocket,

my connected config: 1 adsl microfilter, connected to this are one adsl router and 1 corded phone,

once again i have removed to faceplate(just in case it was defective) and connected adsl filter to test socket with absolutely no changes,

As a customer who is connected to the internet via my isp's own network(LLU) the bt bras profiling system does not apply to my connection, only ip stream products are affected by this,form of connection throttling,also the bt speedtester does not work as it askes me for a code,lol not that a poor throughput speed is my problem as LLU connections always sync at the data rate the line is able to support,or the max data rate,adsl=8000kbps adsl2+ 240000kbps or what ever the isp supplies.

so based on the fact that noise can be heard when adsl is connected this i presume is a adsl related fault? and therefore the isp's responsibility to get bt involved,ie SFI visit? which considering the costs involved for this 2hr visit i ain't suprised the isp is trying everything else first,but this aint gonna be a proper cure for it