Parked in wrong side of car park.

B.Inky

Hello,

I got a parking ticket today- I'm a bit annoyed and not sure if I'm in the right or wrong.

Basically, we paid for 3 hours in a council owned car park. We got back to the car after 2 hours 51 minutes and got a ticket, issued by APCOA. It turns out that the right hand row of spaces (where we parked) is for long stay- 4 hrs+ and the left hand (where we should have parked), is for short stay. I don't feel as though it was clear enough- when we got back to the carpark, it still took us about 10 minutes to figure out why we'd got the ticket. Barriers between the other cars on our row had signs on them, but where we were parked didn't (and in fact quite a big car was parked next to us and we didn't see the closest sign, and even that was 2 spaces along.

But maybe we should have looked more closely? I find it all very mis-leading- we had a valid ticket and made sure we returned within the right time- it never occured to me that we couldn't park in the space closest to the ticket machine. I feel almost as though I've been tricked! Is it worth appealing, or will they just ignore it? The fine's only £25, so not too bad, but I don't feel inclined to pay on principal.

B

boliston

B.Inky wrote: »

Hello,

I got a parking ticket today- I'm a bit annoyed and not sure if I'm in the right or wrong.

Basically, we paid for 3 hours in a council owned car park. We got back to the car after 2 hours 51 minutes and got a ticket, issued by APCOA. It turns out that the right hand row of spaces (where we parked) is for long stay- 4 hrs+ and the left hand (where we should have parked), is for short stay. I don't feel as though it was clear enough- when we got back to the carpark, it still took us about 10 minutes to figure out why we'd got the ticket. Barriers between the other cars on our row had signs on them, but where we were parked didn't (and in fact quite a big car was parked next to us and we didn't see the closest sign, and even that was 2 spaces along.

But maybe we should have looked more closely? I find it all very mis-leading- we had a valid ticket and made sure we returned within the right time- it never occured to me that we couldn't park in the space closest to the ticket machine. I feel almost as though I've been tricked! Is it worth appealing, or will they just ignore it? The fine's only £25, so not too bad, but I don't feel inclined to pay on principal.

B

A council can "fine" a motorist, but APCOA is surely a private company so it's effectively an "invoice" rather than a fine. I think they could only enforce the invoice if they know the name of the driver, which I doubt very much.

B.Inky

It says on the front of the ticket that it's [local council] working with APCOA. Inside it has the council logo and quotes the Traffic Management Act 2004- so I think it is a genuine fine, rather than an invoice. I had a look at the Council website and have sent in a letter now- apparently while they deal with my dispute, the fine won't go up, which is good. It feels very unfair- there were plenty of spaces either side- if they'd made it more obvious why on earth would we have parked in the wrong spot?!

boliston

B.Inky wrote: »

It says on the front of the ticket that it's [local council] working with APCOA. Inside it has the council logo and quotes the Traffic Management Act 2004- so I think it is a genuine fine, rather than an invoice. I had a look at the Council website and have sent in a letter now- apparently while they deal with my dispute, the fine won't go up, which is good. It feels very unfair- there were plenty of spaces either side- if they'd made it more obvious why on earth would we have parked in the wrong spot?!

OK if it's council then negotiation is the way to go!

The council are typically far more reasonable in this respect than "private" firms as their attitude is basically "pay up and then we will consider your case"! Like OK sure you will??!!

peter_the_piper

Get a copy of the parking place order for that car park, its possible that the park was laid out wrong and that the signs are wrong. Post up the ticket you got, both sides by hosting on tinypic and put the url on here. Can you get pics of where you parked and the general area. Its up to you to decide if the work involved is worth the effort.
Once you've paid the council that's case closed.

B.Inky

I hope this works! I can't really get pictures of the parking space, as it's not my home town. I was at the end of the bay- there was a barrier about 2 or 3 cars along that said long-parking on it (which we only noticed when we got back). We were opposite the pay machine, and I checked to make sure we weren't in a disabled bay as it was such a convenient place to park!

I guess it has to be worth appealing, but at least it's not too much. I've never seen a car park where different rows are for different ticket types (other than parent/child or disabled). I'll triple-check in future!

B.Inky

peter_the_piper

Well, on just a quick look my first thought was, How are you supposed to know how long you have to claim the discount? All the printing has run onto other printing. Let others confirm but I think that's a part of the claim anyway.

Unless the carpark spacing is clearly marked into short and long stays then you have IMHO a clear case, though the council won't necessarily see it the same way.

Coupon-mad

peter_the_piper wrote: »

Well, on just a quick look my first thought was, How are you supposed to know how long you have to claim the discount? All the printing has run onto other printing. Let others confirm but I think that's a part of the claim anyway.

Unless the carpark spacing is clearly marked into short and long stays then you have IMHO a clear case, though the council won't necessarily see it the same way.

Agreeing with all of the above, also as PTP said earlier - get a copy from the Council of the Parking Places Order for that car park (they have to let you see it and you can ask them for a copy of it). The PPO is the last word on parking - and it must be clear and cover your PCN.

You can probably email for a copy if it's available in electronic format - and don't let them delay responding or tell you it has to be treated as a Freedom of Info request - it doesn't. And you don't have to ID yourself nor refer to the PCN, you shouldn't say that you are not in the area, and you don't have to say why you are asking.

That will be a large document which you can trawl through to check that the long-stay spaces are correctly and clearly laid out, and that the document states the right charges for each area and states the penalty for parking in the wrong place. Lots of PPOs I have seen posted on pepipoo.com are wrong/unclear/historic and out-of-date so let's hope that this one is!

In the meantime, you could post here a google map image of the car park in question, naming the roads it is on, so others here can advise. If you are lucky, a local may be able to look at the signage & take pics - or do you have friends living in the area who could?

I would be appealing this one - but then I would appeal any Council PCN now I think!

TheBogsDollocks

PCN is non compliant. It fails to inform as to the lawful period available in which the recipient has to submit an informal challenge.