refurbishing a house and extension

maccyd_3

Hi,

I'm new to all this but I need some advice. I've got a 3 bed semi detached that needs totally refurbished - rewired, gas installed, new bathroom and kitchen, load bearing wall removed, front door replaced and back door moved as well as plastering and new ceilings. If that goes well I'm going to get a side extension comprising a garage and a bathroom above it. The side wall of the extension will have to act as a retaining wall to hold up the neighbours drive.

We've met a builder that seems very professional and talks a good game. His quote is £40,000 for the whole lot (extension included). My questions are 1)is that fair or does it seem too low to be true and 2)he says he's VAT registered but is "doing us a favour" by not charging VAT and asking for cash in hand. He has no problem with me getting a contract drawn up by my lawyer. However it just sound a little suspect to me. Is that common and acceptable practice?

Thanks for the help.

ormus

depends where you live and exactly what is being done. your description of works is too vague.
cash in hand means beware. esp on a large job of 40k plus.

phill99

I would have thought getting a good job done is more important than saving the VAT. I would be tempted to get another couple of quotes. Get a full specification drawn up as well as a contract so that BOTH parties know what to expect. A cash in hand job always means that he can deny that he has done any work especially if there are any problems, and if anything disastrous happens you may never see him again and it may cost you alot more than the saving in VAT to put it right. Be aware.

chrisg1985

If you came back to us with a detailed list of work quoted for we would help you. We also need rough area you live.

The first thing would be to find out how long he has been building in your area.

He may be genuine and the easy way to find that out is ask for five references - go and see the work. Most people will be happy to show you the work carried out.

I also totally agree with phil about the VAT. Pay it and be happy with a totally legal binding agreement. You want comeback on this quantity of work.

maccyd_3

Thank you all very much for the replies so far.

I live in Glasgow. My partner and I are going to see an example of this builders work today. He is from the local area as well. I always planned to get a contract drawn up and I have every intention of paying the VAT now that I know hes's register. I'm just concerned that if he's evading VAT regularly then is he above board on other fronts. I also have no intention of paying cash. It'll be cheque or bank transfer (electronic reciept).

In terms of what I'm getting done, I'll give a list below:

Its a three bedroom semi detached 1960s Wimpey that has been stripped of kitchen, bathroom, ceilings and doors. Its empty and unoccupied. It needs:

1)Completely rewired with a new fuse box and meter (supplier to fit meter)
2)New central heating installed including boilder (at the moment it has no gas -transco are fitting that in March - Scottish gas fitting the meter) 9 radiators.
3) A new kitchen (mid spec from Howdens including all new appliances but not a dishwasher)
4) A new bathroom in which we plan a double walk in shower, toilet and sink. It also needs tiled.
5) 5 new internal doors.
6) New plasterboard ceilings throughout.
7) loft insultation and pull down loft ladder and hatch.
8) New wood facings (or as I refer to it - the bits round the inside of the window frame and the windowsil) for UPVC windows - (5)
9) Removing a retaining wall internally (about a meter and a half wide) and replacing it with a steel lintel (don't know what strength we need yet - structural engineer doing sums)
10) New UPVC front door.
11) New UPVC french doors to be placed where there is currently a back window - the window needs to be removed and a small prtion of wall below it cut out and then two steps built from the door to the garden.
12) Re plumb the bathroom and kitchen.
13) Re plaster 3 rooms (makes up to a space of about 40m squared).
14) Replace 4 broken floorboards (about 2m long each)
15) Replace existing back door with a UPVC window (half the height of the door and brick up the remaining area)
16) Repair a steel lintel above the living room window that has been corroded by water penetration. The structural engineer thinks it sufficent to treat this and then fill the gap rather than replace it.
17) Extension is a side one ( that would involve removing the bathroom and kitchen window) 19m squared garage at the bottom with a 6.2m squared bathroom above and a pitched roof with 2 velux windows. The garage at the bottom is going to have roll over doors front and back. It doesn't need heated but will need light. The side exterior wall of the extension will need to replace and do the job of an existing party retaining wall that is falling down and currently holds up the neighbours drive.

Sorry for the length but its a big job - can all of that really be done for £40,000 plus £7,000 VAT?

Once again, thanks for the advice.

Maccyd

themanbearpig

Thats a very fair price based on typical labour rates.
But leaving it to 1 person means you need to be 100% certain this guy is reliable, and will not do a runner half way though when he gets bored. It seems a bit p!ckey of him to say he will do you a favour, and allow you to pay him in cash. I would walk away after that!
£50k is serious money, make sure you do things properly, I would pay for a lawyer to draw up a contract!

Jue_xx

Will he be able to certify all the work? Electrical certficates? Building regulations? Certification for the plumbing work?

iamcornholio

Paying cash does not mean bad work or liable to be ripped off.

The Government, for obvious reasons, would like us all to pay our taxes and VAT, and so have banged the cash=cowboys drum for years.

Anyone can be ripped off by a builder of any size and of any reputation - and they can go bust overnight whoever they are.

The key thing is to get a contract drawn up, but most important is to avoid paying out lots of money "up front" or for work not complete.
Don't let a lawyer loose on designing a contract - they will rip you off IMO. There are plenty of suitable small building contracts available from the various trade associations or google JCT for one of theirs. Just keep the contract simple and to the point.

If you need to help the builder out, make cheques out to the supplier or pay COD for materials.

Set out payment stages based on paying for stages of work when it is complete. Don't be in a position where you have paid out 90% of the costs when only 50% of the work is finished. And don't pay for stages where you are not happy with the work quality - and make sure the builder is aware of this so he knows where he stands. On the flip side, don't niggle unecessarily and pay the builder if he is due payment - he has bills to pay and family to support too

Tom_Jones

So what horse did this contractor ride in on I wonder ? Seriously if a legitimate contractor wants 'cash in hand' for a 40k job then I would avoid him like the plague, he is no doubt a cowboy.

baldelectrician

I would suggest you check the guy out (google his company name)

Also as you are in Scotland you can do a google on the council website and it may come up with jobs he has been the main contractor on.
This will give you an address to look at- you could do a drive by

You could even chap the persons door and ask them what they thought of the builder

Go to the builders merchants and buy something small (say felt or sand) and drop his name into conversation- you can tell a lot by the way people react.

Look up his business address on 192.com and see if he has lived there long and find out if he has been registered as a company director there

Look up the scotcourts website for his name and see if someone has taken him to court.

Ask him what gas / plumbing and electrical contractor he uses - look at the gas safe and sbsa website to see if they are registered

I have heard of lots of scary builder stories, better to check thoroughly to see before you part with £50 k


You should use a competent person for the work, links below
In Scotland:
Individuals registered;
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/ListAC.asp
Companies
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/Sear...struction&ID=2
In England and Wales:
http://www.competentperson.co.uk

iamcornholio

Tom_Jones wrote: »

Seriously if a legitimate contractor wants 'cash in hand' for a 40k job then I would avoid him like the plague, he is no doubt a cowboy.

Lots of big companies do work for cash. It has absolutely no relation to the quality of the work, or status of the person.

The risk is the same whether the builder has been trading for 20 years, or just started out on his first solo job

Big 'reputable' building firms often do work for cash and the sums involved are in the hundreds of thousands of pounds