Stopping cooking smell and air being pumped into my house from my neighbour kitchen

rjhempel

Hi there,
I am hoping someone can assist as I am at my wits end as to how to progress forward, if indeed there can be any progress.

Two years ago my neighbour decided to renovate their kitchen and in doing so, install an extractor. Since that time me and my fiancee have been smelling their cooking each time they cook and it isn't nice. We stupidly put up with it, until after smelling cigarette smoke, that was it, I was very annoyed and obviously concerned at my health.

Since we spoke to them, we have gone through a lot of ups and downs, but it seems we are at a dead end unless I can get them to rip their kitchen apart to find out how they are managing to pump air into my house.

The council have been basically useless, telling me that it isn't within their remit to force the neighbour to fix the problems, despite telling me it is a fire risk, because if air can get through then if they have a fire, it could come into my house, which is worrying, but you would think the council would be concerned with that. The council also say the extractor must expel the air outside, can't prove one way or another if it doesn't or does.

The neighbour had a surveyor in, their surveyor told them, the extractor seemed fine, 'seemed' strange choice of words, but if there is a hole in the party wall, then the only way to find it is to strip the kitchen, they obviously don't want to do that.

I am certain of one place I am getting air pumped in, which is a electrical socket on the wall, despite covering it, it still lets air in. All of this never happened prior renovation, so it seems odd to happen since, unless there was damage their side.

Have spoken to my insurance company, who tell me unless I can show the damage, they won't investigate, given that is hard without stripping my whole kitchen, I don't see how I can take any further. Thanks CIS, much appreciated!

Thanks to a kind soul on these boards, I managed to speak to a RCIS party wall surveyor for free, very useful. He said that basically short of stripping the kitchen there is nothing I can do. An air pressure test and a smoke bomb test will show where it expels, but doesn't show the source. Thankfully I didn't have to pay for that information.

Right now I am at a dead end. I don't know how to progress this, with spending thousands removing the wall to get to my side of the party wall and find the hole I believe they create, or well their installer created.

If anyone has any ideas as to how to progress this, so I can stop living with the smell of horrid cooking, air being pumped into my house, I would be very appreciative.

Many thanks
Russell

latecomer

Surely if its their extractor then a smoke bomb test from their kitchen by the extractor will show if the air is being extracted to the outside or not. If its not then it must be their responsibilty to get it fixed?

ariba10

Is the room where they are cooking physically attached to your room?

Errata

Light a candle, hold it right next to where you believe air is being pumped into your property by your neighbour's property. If the candle flickers significantly, take it from there. Although TBH I can't see how air can continue to be pumped out of a socket area if you've covered it.

Mankysteve

Have they got there extractor on recirculate or extract? Is it defo smell coming though the wall or is it coming in from out the property and not just outside smell coming in though the usally ways.

olias

I honestly can't see how this could be happening. If it is a recirculating extractor, then the smells would just recirculate back into their kitchen. If it's an extractor to outside, then the smells would just go outside, unless you have an open window or DG with trickle vents near to where their fan vents outside?

The only other possibilty would be if there was a significant hole in the party wall that reached from their kitchen right through to your property, and I can't see how that could have been caused by a simple kitchen refit.

What kind of property and party wall are we talking about, flats/a conversion, semis, terrace, new build? Is the party wall solid, stone, brick?

Can you not see on their outside wall whether they have an extractor vent fitted?

Olias

rjhempel

From the chats I have had with the neighbour, it is an extractor, they say it vents to the roof, though I have no proof either way. How much air would be coming through if the roof was blocked. Is it feasible that the flue/duct to the outside via the roof has deterioated.

As our houses are mid-terraced, our kitchens back onto each other and they have the extractor where the chimmney area is. Obviously with it being midterraced, I am assuming that there is a sharing. I don't know enough about party walls to know what type of party wall, all I know is the house is over 100 years old, early 1900s and I can't see the outside wall where the extractor vent is fitted as they say it goes through the roof/chimmney on the roof.

Also, would anyone know if it possible to do a smoke bomb/air pressure test without a professional, or would that just be the most stupid thing to do.

To my knowledge they don't have to fix it, no building regs that force them, though I thought fire risk would be an important one.

Thanks for the assistance so far. I am hoping I will see an end to this.

Russell

Errata

Also, would anyone know if it possible to do a smoke bomb/air pressure test without a professional, or would that just be the most stupid thing to do.

Try the trick with a lighted candle I suggested. Candle flames will bend away from any drafts and you can move it around the room at different heights and close to the walls etc.
If the kitchen chimney breasts are back to back, try checking the air vent with a lighted candle on your chimney breast first.

olias

Still a bit confused! Are you saying that that it somehow vents into what used to be a chimney for a fireplace and so presumably the smell should in theory go up the flue and out of the chimneystack? If so, then the 'draw' of the flue should suck the smells up and out. If that is not happening, then it suggests a blockage or some other problem stopping the flue from drawing the fumes up.

What do you have on your side where the fireplace used to be. If it has been blocked up, then there should have been a vent put in place to allow air to circulate and prevent damp in the redundant chimney. If this is the case, then that could be where the fumes are coming in. I don't really know, but I'm guessing that in a terrace the flues from fireplaces may join up into a common flue further up, meaning that fumes could go upfrom one side and possibly find their way back down the other.

I believe there are products that can be fitted to increase the 'draw' of a flue. Isn't that what the spinning things you see on top of some chimney pots for?

Don't know hwether that helps, but hopefully there are some more avenues for you to explore.

Olias

CKdesigner

Hi

Very interesting - your neighbour says the cooker hood ducts through the roof. It might be just vented into their loft space then you would definately get the smells in your house. There should be a wall in the loft between your houses but when they were built there probably was no wall. This loft devision if there is one would be very unlikely to be air tight.

On the other hand if the cooker hood is ducted into the chimney then this is a very bad idea unless they spent £1,000's on a bespoke chimney extraction system (which I also doubt). Again if there is any tiny air hole in the back to back chimneys then you will be getting smells through. It's a really bad idea to duct into a chimney as normal cooker hoods are way too weak to push the air to the top so then all the grease laden air just falls back down and deposits the grease on the inner walls of the chimney, then if they have a pan fire in years to come the grease acts as the fuel for a chimney fire.

I don't want to worry you but we fit lots of kitchens at all sorts of costs and we never duct into a chimney unless a customer has a minimum of £4,000 (just for the extraction system) to do it properly.

Good luck

CK

rjhempel

Errata - I'll try the candle idea, at least at you say it will let me know where in my property the air is coming in. I am not sure what you mean by air vent, as you say the chimney breast are back to back, but mine is boarded up underneath to stop air coming through I imagine, when they stripped it out all those years ago.

Olias - You are correct in saying it seems to be venting into what was the chimney for the fireplace. But as we have back to back chimney and the chimney stack doesn't seem to be directly above the flue in the kitchen, it seems to be further back, sort of at a angle. So the draw of the flue should be pulling the air up, okay, that helps my understanding a little more. My fireplace has a board covering the bottom of it, to my knowledge the fireplace is blocked up, just a board across the exit in the kitchen. Maybe as you say the draw needs to be increased.

CKDesigner - The smell is most prominent in the kitchen, then the bathroom which is above the kitchen, but worse in the kitchen by a long way, saldy though it can go through the whole house and my bedrooms also smell. I was stupid enough to leave it for so long. From what I saw in the neighbours property the cooker hood/extractor is ducting into the chimney. Thanks for the info re the extraction unit, I when I eventually update my kitchen was thinking of putting the extraction unit exactly where they have because it is the most economical use of space and saves me having to rip the chimney breast out and get a replacement support, as it seems my support is using the chimney breast and its surrounding area.

Does anyone know if i have any recourse to force them to fix it, or does it just remain a civil matter and that they can if they so choose stick two fingers up to me if they wish and I just have to suffer it.

They also did say that they changed the filter on the extraction unit, but how much use would that be?

Russell